Dota 2 vs LoL: Why anti-Dota arguments are not valid

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david15923

Junior Member

03-09-2012

Before I continue, I just want to say that I'm not a fanboy for either game, my first experience with a MOBA was League of legends (I have arround 800 games played + I've watched some competetive games), just a couple of months ago I started playing a bit of Dota 2 and right now I liked it more (I've played a lot less dota 2 compared to LoL cause I'm waiting to upgrade my PC and watched a **** ton of competetive matches to a point where I can understand everything that is going on)


I'm just doing this post because I get mad when I see some flawed arguments that make no sense. In Dota there are also people that say stupid things about LoL, but there aren't near as much because it's easier for a Dota player to understand LoL than the other way arround (I'll get to that point).



Can we PLEASE have a good discussion once in a while isntead of disliking? If you dislike say what you dislike in my post, and we can discuss it

let's start with the 2 biggest ones (slow and deny):


DOTA 2 IS SLOW AND BORING, DENNYING SLOWS EVEN MORE THE GAMEPLAY AND IT'S DUMB.


1- Let's get this clear: Dota is FASTER then LoL at a Medium or High level. At a lower level LoL is faster because people in pubs people pick 2 hard carries and 2 semi-carries and NO "support" only. In Dota carries in the beggining are more weak then carries in LoL, but they are more strong late game compared to LoL carries. Also, Dota supports have VERY strong cc's. For example, venomancer has a lvl 1 50% slow for 15 seconds(the slow decreases as time passes, but still, that's very strong).

Why is it faster at a higher level? - It's fastter for the simple fact that there is more kill potential. That happens because 1- the towers in Dota are more weak, its not unnusual to see lvl 2 dives, where as in LoL it's VERY difficult to dive at early level's because you will probably die. 2 - there is more "space" between you and the tower. Dota's map is bigger, so that means that people can't just sit under the tower and gain exp, because they are 2 far away.

2- *this is an important one* dennying. When you denny a creep, you are taking away arround 50% of the exp they would otherwise get, and you can also controll the pace at you push or don't push better. In LoL even if u ONLY last hit, eventually you will push a bit the lane, and even if u don't push that much, the guy sitting in his tower can still get 100% of the exp. That said, dennying is almost NON existent at a pub level (people go for last hits and supports generally try to last hit instead of dennying, even with if a team mate is a carry).

3- Everyone knows that this is the thing that slows down the game the most: flash. Flash is the big big problem. People say "Oh, if flash wasn't in the game would be slower and champs like kassa and ahri would be OP". The fact is that 80% of the times flash is used is to avoid beeing killed, not to kill someone. Some people also say that if everyone has flash it's balanced, and no it just doesn't work that way. If I have 100 HP, I flash to turret range, and you can't dive because the turrets are too powerfull, although we both had flash you couldn't kill me. How is that balanced? You outplayed me, I made a mistake and still I wasn't killed. Champs with "flash" can easily get nerfed by having a lot less dmg or a lot less cc. Not difficult.


TL;DR - DOta can be slower at a pub level, but faster at a competetive level. That's because towers do less dmg, map is bigger and there is no flash.



DOTA ALSO HAS "FLASH" AND IT'S WORSE BECAUSE IT HAS MORE RANGE


to me this is a funny one.... The obvious counter arguments to this one would be:
1- CC's are longer, spells make more dmg and on top of that heroes have a lower HP pool compared to LoL's, so if someone gets caught he will be stunned for longger and will be killed more easily.

2- It costs MANA. Yes, you have to spend mana to flash and when you take into consideration that spells are arround 1.5x more expensive and mana pools are WAYYYYY smaller, it's a lot more difficult to use it compared to LoL.

3- It costs MONEY and SPACE. It costs 2150 gold, that's expensive and you have to have that money in your "pocket" there is no "buy 3 items and that converts into a blink dagger". That's a risk because while you could be buying stats you are saving all this money, and you loose money when you die so if you are dying a lot it will take some time to get there. The blink dagger is very much a mid-late game item with the exception of some heroes like sand king, so you cannot escape when you are lvl 1.

4- Yes the blink dagger ONLY works 3 seconds after you've been attacked by an enemy champion. So, that means it's VERY difficult to escape.


TL;DR - The blink dagger costs a lot of money and you need some mana to use it. For most heroes it's bought mid or late game late game, so the early game "passiveness" of LoL is non existent + every time you are attacked the cooldown resets to 3 seconds, so it's difficult to escape.


I DONT LIKE DOTA BECAUSE THE IS NO "B" AND THE SHOPS SUCKS.


This is also one of the most common.

1- In Dota you start with 603 gold and the items that give you stats are cheaper, so you can buy a LOT more regen. I often see people buying boots + tango in dota and that is NOT a viable build, you'll get easily harassed, you will have VERY little regen. So, you have overall more sustain ability in Dota compared to LoL

2- There are also side shops, and if you do it right, you can buy items that latter can be upgraded into items that are sold in the side shops, so that you don't have to run back.

3- There is the courrier, which can bring you ALL the items you want. He can even bring you more potions/tangos, so if you are low on life you can get back to full and not miss exp as long as you've got the money.

4- In LoL you can go back in a couple of seconds, but you have to walk to go back to the lane. In dota you can buy 2 tp scrolls and they will cost you arround 270 gold, each creep gives on average 42 gold, so you need like 7 last hits to get all your gold back + and above all you didn't lost any experience (which is the main thing, beeing 1 min away from the lane is a lot of exp).


TL;DR - In LoL you can go back with b, but you can't go back to the lane (unless u have the summoner spell, but it's not in the meta so no one uses it). So you are (let's say) 30 secs without exp and gold. In Dota you can get regen for cheaper, you have side shops to buy items, you have the courrier to bring u items that are not in the side shop or more regen, and you can buy tp scrolls. Yes they cost money, but it compensates because you get almost as much money as if you spent 1 min going back, and you don't loose exp. It's one of the worst arguments people can have because when you look at it, if you are a DECENT player you won't need to go back often like you do in LoL.


I LIKE THE PROGRESSION SYSTEM IN LOL BETTER


This is one that pisses me off. It's like, you prefer to grind to play the new champion rather than be able to play it right away? In Dota you play the hero you want and you also get rewarded for playing the game because they give you parts to costumize your heroes (it's like receiving free skins, although dota has a problem where they give a LOT of chests.)

DOTA IS IMBALANCED

It might seem imbalanced but it is actually a more balanced game then LoL. Last patch of balance we had was like 9 months ago because dota is balanced differently, and it is a lot easier to balance it. When you hear Dota people saying every champion is op, it's because generally every hero has a spell that is VERY strong and that is only "anti-fun" when you feed or someone feeds because you can't generally do anything about it. To compensate, usually casters are very weak late game, while carries are very strong.


I would also reply to that morello post about "LoL is not more simplistic, it's more clear" but why should I do it? It's like saying that CoD is more "clear" then Counter Strike, therefore it's a better esport. Pathetic.


Give opinions and don't start a fanboy war. I still enjoy LoL, I just think that it could be a much better game if the devs actually fixed some problems like getting flash out of the game, make more interesting champions, and promote pusing strategies

Thank you


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BurstCoffee

Recruiter

04-09-2012

You forget to explain why Dota is more fun than LoL.
Oh wait, it's not...

But anyway, you shouldn't post that here. Go on a Dota forum for recruiting players.


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He Who Hungers

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Senior Member

04-09-2012

Nice thread, you really bring some arguments to the table here.
As for myself, I like Dota more because it's more lively. In LoL it usually takes some time before anything really goes down, while in Dota there's actually stuff happening in the laning phase way more often.


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Grömit

Member

04-09-2012

Sorry but LoL is just more fun and accessable than DOTA 2, the controls for LoL are reletively intuitive and easy to master, from that point on it's only your discission making that seperates you from the other players.

DOTA 2 is clunk, awkward and certainly not noob friendly. the camera control is laughable, it does'nt lock on your character, the movement seems laboured and you can't stutter step or do other complex maneuvers, in short it just has an over complicated and clunky control method but the fans will have you believe it gives you more control.

Sorry but if it's not intuitive then it gets thrown in the trash. Played it a while and i just went back to lol.


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david15923

Junior Member

04-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by BurstCoffee View Post
You forget to explain why Dota is more fun than LoL.
Oh wait, it's not...

But anyway, you shouldn't post that here. Go on a Dota forum for recruiting players.
Well, usually people use the arguments that I mentioned to say that Dota isn't fun or is bad, so just me clarifying those excuses that people use is the same as saying "dota is more fun because...." but I'll give you a (short) answerof why dota 2 is better IMO

1st - better graphics, sound, voice, etc.

2nd - more fast paced (as I've said, if you are decent and you play with decent people it IS a lot more fast paced then LoL)

3rd - Meta game: this is one of the worst things in LoL, the meta game. In Dota no strategy is the "best" strategy, there are always counters (as an example, naga in Dota was insta-ban ban every game, but recently Na'vi found a counter, and where as before the win rate of teams with naga was like 80%, with this new counter was like 30%. There are no counters to the current meta in LoL), and in Dota trilanes are viable, dual roaming is viable, no carry is viable, jungler is viable, etc.

4th - Hero/champion variety: In LoL almost every single new LoL champ that comes out is a rehash (example: diana's q is lee sin's q, her w is the typical buff, her e is oriana's ult, but does no dmg, and her ult is akali's ult with a small twist). In Dota you feel like every hero is unique, and almost all of them are fun to play.

5th - More balanced: that's just a fact.

6th - CONCLUSION: LoL is a better casual game, Dota is a better competetive game. Means that if you play these types of games casually you are probably going to get more fun out of LoL, if you play these games competetivly you are probably going to get more fun out of Dota. Even some known LoL players have admited that Dota is superior but they won't be changing because of how much money they make.


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david15923

Junior Member

04-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tachikoma Kun View Post
Sorry but LoL is just more fun and accessable than DOTA 2, the controls for LoL are reletively intuitive and easy to master, from that point on it's only your discission making that seperates you from the other players.

DOTA 2 is clunk, awkward and certainly not noob friendly. the camera control is laughable, it does'nt lock on your character, the movement seems laboured and you can't stutter step or do other complex maneuvers, in short it just has an over complicated and clunky control method but the fans will have you believe it gives you more control.

Sorry but if it's not intuitive then it gets thrown in the trash. Played it a while and i just went back to lol.
"fun" is not the right word, but "accessible" is. Yes the movement is difficult to get used to in the beggining, and as I've said many times LoL is a better casual game, Dota is a better competetive game. Means that if you play these types of games casually you are probably going to get more fun out of LoL, if you play these games competetivly you are probably going to get more fun out of Dota. AND even some known LoL players have admited that Dota is superior but they won't be changing because of how much money they make.

Also, if the whole reason you don't play dota is because of the movent go play HoN, it's Dota but with "better" movement. The reason Dota doesn't change the movement is because it's not a problem for the players (in fact, once your used to it the movent will feel WAY more smooth because of the animation quality) and it changes the balance in a BIG way. For example, in HoN they had to give minor buffs to all melee heroes because they were too weak, other heroes could just run away from them.


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CloppyFawk

Senior Member

04-09-2012

Imo lol is way more fun.

Pro players often say that platinum LoL level is way harder then high level dota play.


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BurstCoffee

Recruiter

06-09-2012

Gotta love how every post against dota gets downvoted by the author of the topic...


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Embla

Senior Member

06-09-2012

Dude what do you expect posting anything about Dota 2 here, no one will be like "oh yes he's so right i've been blind all my life" it's a LoL forum obviously they like LoL more. Just like if you post some random things about LoL on a Dota forum you'll get flamed. (and i'm a Dota 2 fan myself just saying).

And people who say platinium LoL lvl is harder than pro Dota are just people trying to feel good about themselves, say anything you want about Dota but don't say it's easier than LoL that's just not true at all and it's one of the only thing most of the people of both communities agree on.


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The Strategist

Senior Member

07-09-2012

Why do these threads always turn into massive LoL *** en DOTA *** buthhurt threads?
I play both, i enjoy both, i prefer a few things in LoL and in DOTA 2, I cannot call either better cause they are both different in their own way.

Calling either BETTER is plain dumb, it's you would compare FIFA to Pro evolution soccer. BOTH are football games, but BOTH have different things which make them stand out in their own way.