Le counter pick de darius ?

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Simplexible

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12-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProxyDamage View Post
You don't know what a hard counter is.

Darius vs. Jax.

Darius vs. Yorick.

Darius vs. Kennen

Ryze vs. Le Blanc

Karthus vs. Kassadin/Le Blanc

To name a few. There's no reason that at any point in the game the former should beat the later in those.

Hard counter = Character has an innate and very large advantage on another character. It's not an impossible match up, it's just a very significant advantage.
Nope, they can be called soft counters but never specific hard counters. I've bullied Darius as Jax and Jax as Darius. I've torn apart Kassadins as Karthus and vice versa. When I play a certain champion I never "Oh no there's my counter on the enemy team", even if I notice a champion which in public opinion counters mine, I seem to beat them in every fair fight.

A Hard Counter should be able to kill a certain champion (which they counter) without fail. if they have the same amount of gold and lvl, with players of the same skill, both full hp as well.

A Soft counter is a champion that has something in their skillset which would be disruptive if used against a certain champion, note that these tools of disruption can all be countered effectively e.g. Talon is a soft counter to Ryze because of his 1 second silence; Ryze can counter this silence with a Banshee's Veil, Clense or Quicksilver Sash.


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ProxyDamage

Senior Member

12-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplexible View Post
Nope, they can be called soft counters but never specific hard counters.

A Hard Counter should be able to kill a certain champion (which they counter) without fail. if they have the same amount of gold and lvl, with players of the same skill, both full hp as well.

A Soft counter is a champion that has something in their skillset which would be disruptive if used against a certain champion, note that these tools of disruption can all be countered effectively e.g. Talon is a soft counter to Ryze because of his 1 second silence; Ryze can counter this silence with a Banshee's Veil, Clense or Quicksilver Sash.
SCRUB ALERT.

Someone doesn't know what "hard counter" means.

Talon isn't even a counter to Ryze. 1 second of silence does not match the absurd disable + burst Ryze follows up with.

Le Blanc, on the other hand, can silence you from outside your range to fight and insta-kill you with her burst. You can build items that help, but her silence has significantly higher cooldown than her silence. Yes, Ryze scales better into late game and team fights, but that doesn't help the fact that Le Blanc can shut him down early and there's not much he can do about it. That's what a hard counter does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplexible View Post
I've bullied Darius as Jax and Jax as Darius. I've torn apart Kassadins as Karthus and vice versa. When I play a certain champion I never "Oh no there's my counter on the enemy team", even if I notice a champion which in public opinion counters mine, I seem to beat them in every fair fight.
That Jax and Kassadin were ****. There's no reason they should lose other than being purely outplayed.


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Simplexible

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12-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProxyDamage View Post
SCRUB ALERT.

Someone doesn't know what "hard counter" means.

Talon isn't even a counter to Ryze. 1 second of silence does not match the absurd disable + burst Ryze follows up with.

Le Blanc, on the other hand, can silence you from outside your range to fight and insta-kill you with her burst. You can build items that help, but her silence has significantly higher cooldown than her silence. Yes, Ryze scales better into late game and team fights, but that doesn't help the fact that Le Blanc can shut him down early and there's not much he can do about it. That's what a hard counter does.
Scrub because I don't have the same opinion as you?

NEWS FLASH:

These phrases hold no official meanings, the definitions we make for them are assumptions based on our opinions. For someone who spends most of their time trying to prove they're a genius, you aren't so bright.

I didn't say Talon counters Ryze, I said he soft counters Ryze, learn to read. Seriously do I really have to repeat myself on the internet? Are you THAT stupid?

Leblanc can't hard counter Ryze, a Ryze player the same lvl as her would use that opportunity to get in range since her missile speed is so slow and all it will do is pop his banshee's veil while he unloads a burst on her, he still has cleanse + his magic resist and hp are quite high. Leblanc can only run or die and I don't consider that hard countering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProxyDamage View Post
That Jax and Kassadin were ****. There's no reason they should lose other than being purely outplayed.
Don't give me circular arguments.


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ProxyDamage

Senior Member

12-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplexible View Post
Scrub because I don't have the same opinion as you?

NEWS FLASH:

These phrases hold no official meanings, the definitions we make for them are assumptions based on our opinions. For someone who spends most of their time trying to prove they're a genius, you aren't so bright.
Are we really going into an argument into the legitimacy of colloquialisms and language perversion/adaptation? Cause that's a ****ing essay. I like how you assume 5 minutes posting on forums = most of someone's time. I guess when you don't have any kind of social contact the only model or standard of social behaviour you have left is yourself... Must be sad.

I'm telling you the commonly accepted definition. Tell you what, keep using your version, I'll keep using "mine", and then you'll wonder why everyone tells you you're wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplexible View Post
I didn't say Talon counters Ryze, I said he soft counters Ryze, learn to read. Seriously do I really have to repeat myself on the internet? Are you THAT stupid?
"He doesn't counter, he soft counters! Duh!"

You really don't understand how language works? Whether it's a "hard" or "soft" counter, it's still a counter. The modifier does not preclude the modified. A "short", or "weak", or "tall", or "large" person does not stop being "a person". A "large coke" does not stop being "a coke". A "small vacation" does not stop being "a vacation".

Learn the ****ing language.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplexible View Post
Leblanc can't hard counter Ryze, a Ryze player the same lvl as her would use that opportunity to get in range since her missile speed is so slow and all it will do is pop his banshee's veil while he unloads a burst on her, he still has cleanse + his magic resist and hp are quite high. Leblanc can only run or die and I don't consider that hard countering.
AND THEN HE PULLS A JET FIGHTER OUT OF HIS ARSE AND FLIES AROUND DROPPING BOMBS AHAHA!!- No.

Le Blanc has a 700 range silence and a 900 range "leash" to trigger it. Ryze has nothing above 675 damage. He also has no silence or stun, just a snare (which only has 625 range) and no movement skill (Le Blanc has a teleport). Both characters have the same movement speed. For Ryze to get within range to attack Le Blanc, he has to walk through a range within which she can silence him and he can do nothing. If he gets silence he gets nuked to death before he can do anything, or, at the very least, heavily damage without being able to do anything in return since LB will just teleport out of the way.

If you want to assume one of the chars (Ryze) has a Banshee's then you have to assume LB will have equivalent gear. At which point the match up is still in LB's favour. She can pop his Banshee's using her 900 range leash and he can do nothing in return.

The only way Ryze will beat LB is if LB plays much worse than him. Burn her mana, position herself VERY badly, builds her items poorly, burns all her cooldowns on minions while pushing the lane... Etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplexible View Post
Don't give me circular arguments.
Don't give me unsupported statements of fact.

How is Darius supposed to beat Jax? Counter strike negates just about anything Darius does, Jax is tankier, has more burst, has a stun, AND has more range, so he's going to initiate the fight most of the time.

How is Karthus supposed to beat Kassadin? Kassadin has a 675 range silence+nuke skill and a low cooldown teleport.

Is it physically possible to beat them? Yes. If they're idiots. I've beaten an Olaf and a Tryndamere at the same time as Ashe, by myself. That's not Ashe being awesome, or that match up being great... That's the two players playing those characters being utterly ****.


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Simplexible

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12-08-2012

I'm happy I don't have to waste my time replying to that unbelievably stupid post, instead I'll leave you with these two quotes from you. You've proven yourself to be an idiot. Thanks for saving me time. Didn't really have time to go through hair-splitting arguments and red herrings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProxyDamage View Post
How is Darius supposed to beat Jax?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProxyDamage View Post
Jax is tankier


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MD Erebus

Member

12-08-2012

Garen. Save your silence for when you are both half-ish, whilst using your E to trade; then finish him with your own execution whilst he is neutered.

His regen, mitigation, silence and sustained damage allows him to easily trade with Darius.

~Deist


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ProxyDamage

Senior Member

13-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplexible View Post
I'm happy I don't have to waste my time replying to that unbelievably stupid post, instead I'll leave you with these two quotes from you. You've proven yourself to be an idiot. Thanks for saving me time. Didn't really have time to go through hair-splitting arguments and red herrings.
Shows how much you know.

Darius armour: 20 (+3.5 per level)

Jax armour: 18 (+3.5 per level)

Darius defensive skills? 0

Jax defensive skills? 2. Counter-strike lets him ignore most attacks for a short period of time, and his ulti gives him a fair amount of armour and magic resistance.


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Simplexible

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13-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProxyDamage View Post
Shows how much you know.

Darius armour: 20 (+3.5 per level)

Jax armour: 18 (+3.5 per level)

Darius defensive skills? 0

Jax defensive skills? 2. Counter-strike lets him ignore most attacks for a short period of time, and his ulti gives him a fair amount of armour and magic resistance.
I'll quote the character developers here:

"Darius benefits greatly from enhanced survivability. The longer you can prolong a fight, the more powerful he becomes."

"Jax benefits greatly from items that have both Ability Power and Attack Damage such as Guinsoo's Rageblade and Hextech Gunblade."

And their recommended items say even more. It's no wonder that Jax is one of the few fighter that is recommended to be played with mostly offensive items and limited defence. Unlike Darius, he doesn't go well with much defensive items.


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Brutoloco

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13-08-2012

Malphite, Teemo, Jax, Fiora, Nidalee, Nunu, Tryndamere, Gangplank, Volibear, Trundle, Xin Zhao, Diana, Olaf, Cho Gat, Dr Mundo, Garen, Gragas, Heimerdinger, Jarvan IV, Jayce, Kayle, Urgot, Warwick, Wukong


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ProxyDamage

Senior Member

13-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplexible View Post
I'll quote the character developers here:

"Darius benefits greatly from enhanced survivability. The longer you can prolong a fight, the more powerful he becomes."

"Jax benefits greatly from items that have both Ability Power and Attack Damage such as Guinsoo's Rageblade and Hextech Gunblade."

And their recommended items say even more. It's no wonder that Jax is one of the few fighter that is recommended to be played with mostly offensive items and limited defence. Unlike Darius, he doesn't go well with much defensive items.
Riot also tells you to build boots of swiftness on Ashe, Youmuu's ghostblade on Tristana and that Evelynn is a good jungler.

That said, read what you quoted: "Darius benefits greatly from enhanced survivability." Of course he does. He has none of his own! If you don't build him with survival items he's ****ed. Meanwhile Jax can build into damage. In fact he benefits greatly from building into power, since he already has innate survivability. Jax doesn't need more defence.


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