TheoryCrafting : The ideal carry build

12
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Wiener Party

Senior Member

10-04-2012

You ever played fun normal games in which you are playing a carry champ, and snowballing the **** out of everyone ; But... If a game drags on, youll end up having loads and loads and ****loads of cash!


What would be the IDEAL carry build, considering you have about 25K to spend?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

JimmyDaHand

Senior Member

10-04-2012

I once played a game where our Xin Zhao got a few early kills then snowball hard finishing the game with like 50+ kills. He had like berserker greaves and 5 ie.

Personally, depending if the champ, I'll probably go like IE, 4 trinity force, 1 bloodthirster + all the elixirs. Or maybe a last whisper in there .. dunno haven't worked out the maths.

Oh that Xin Zhao late game was getting killed by Volibear with two thornmails. The game swung back in balance a bit when our Xin Zhao got shut down. They got baron and nearly destroy our base. I had step up taking him down with AP Cho and my thornmail plus i think had Frozen heart + warmog + abyssal scepter and maybe even a void staff meant my thornmail beat Volibears thornmail. Funny as hell as they had a heavy AD team and remember Riven respawning to attack me whilst I was taking down the nexus turrent and as I was running from the turrent, she was killing herself attacking me 'cos my thornmail was doing more damage to her than what she was doing to me. It was actually a really close game and probably the most enjoyable game I had. Always good to be able to finish your build as well.

Anybody work out the maths for optimal build if you have all the gold in the world? would like to know too ^^


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Explosion

Senior Member

10-04-2012

You guys need to learn about UNIQUE passives. There is no reason to stack IE, Trinity Force, Thornmail and the likes. The best carry build is most likely 3 Phantom Dancers, 2 Bloodthirsters and an Infinity Edge.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

JimmyDaHand

Senior Member

10-04-2012

I know about unique passive. I am not sure why he stacked ie but can understand why Volibear bought two thornmails 'cos he had to change his build to counter Xin Zhao and had to sell his items to get armour asap or the game would have been over. He could have waited for Frozen heart not sure he had the money.

Trinity Force I think it might be worth stacking as the slow is not unique passive and just like the movement speed that came with it + health and mana. better than pd. Probably pure AD build will go ie, 3 pd 2 bloodthirster + lw. But if some have ap then a few tri force? Run around like mad. zoom zoom.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Sharksn

Senior Member

10-04-2012

It depends on the Champ you use, your Team and the Enemy Teamcomp. Refering to the "Classic" Meta i would say this Builds are the best when Gold isnt a matter. Diferent Champs have diferent jobs and diferent purposes in a Game. You must adapt your Build to whats happening on the Battlefield.

The highest possible DPS with Autohits would afford 1 IE, 2 PD, 3 Bloodthirster. With Runes, Masteries and Potions you need to make 15% critchance so you reach 100% Crit. 380 AD + Base AD, 100% Crit with 250% Critdamage..

Ashe would reach 478 (+/- AD depending on Runes/Masteries Buffs etc) criting 1.755 Hits per Second. This makes 2097 DPS vs 0 Armor. With 3 PDs 1 IE and 2 BTs its 2000 DPS with less Lifesteal. Depending on Enemy Teams Armor Values a Black Cleaver or Last Whisper would pull out more DPS then the third BT. Eventually Madreds Bloodrazor if all enemies have high Armor and Low Magic Resist...

Facts are:

- More then one IE is a waste cause the purpose of IE is giving you the 250% Critdmage modifier. For AD you can Stack Bloodthirster.
- Black Cleavers Armor Reduce is far better then Last Whispers Armor Piercing effekt for many reasons. To deminish 45 Armor from enemy, enemy needs to have over 112 Armor. Black Cleaver reduces the Armor of the target for all your team pushing the DPS of all Mates doing Physical Damage to the target.
- More then 1 IE + 2 PD = 85% Crit is a waste. A third PD is a waste of Slot cause you can reach the 100% Critrate by Runes and Masteries and Potions.
- You cant Deal Damage when your dead. HP, Armor, Magic Res, Movement Speed, Utility, Lifesteal are stats that benefit your DPS indirectly keeping you alive.
- Guardian Angel at this Stage of the Game is a matter of Lose or Win.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

JimmyDaHand

Senior Member

10-04-2012

Maybe someone like Tris can go ie, 2 tri force, pd, bt, lw so 95% crit or 3 tri force without the pd for 80% crit


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

JimmyDaHand

Senior Member

10-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharksn View Post
It depends on the Champ you use, your Team and the Enemy Teamcomp. Refering to the "Classic" Meta i would say this Builds are the best when Gold isnt a matter. Diferent Champs have diferent jobs and diferent purposes in a Game. You must adapt your Build to whats happening on the Battlefield.

The highest possible DPS with Autohits would afford 1 IE, 2 PD, 3 Bloodthirster. With Runes, Masteries and Potions you need to make 15% critchance so you reach 100% Crit. 380 AD + Base AD, 100% Crit with 250% Critdamage..

Ashe would reach 478 (+/- AD depending on Runes/Masteries Buffs etc) criting 1.755 Hits per Second. This makes 2097 DPS vs 0 Armor. With 3 PDs 1 IE and 2 BTs its 2000 DPS with less Lifesteal. Depending on Enemy Teams Armor Values a Black Cleaver or Last Whisper would pull out more DPS then the third BT. Eventually Madreds Bloodrazor if all enemies have high Armor and Low Magic Resist...

Facts are:

- More then one IE is a waste cause the purpose of IE is giving you the 250% Critdmage modifier. For AD you can Stack Bloodthirster.
- Black Cleavers Armor Reduce is far better then Last Whispers Armor Piercing effekt for many reasons. To deminish 45 Armor from enemy, enemy needs to have around 200 Armor. Black Cleaver reduces the Armor of the target for all your team pushing the DPS of all Mates doing Physical Damage to the target.
- More then 1 IE + 2 PD = 85% Crit is a waste. A third PD is a waste of Slot cause you can reach the 100% Critrate by Runes and Masteries and Potions.
- You cant Deal Damage when your dead. HP, Armor, Magic Res, Movement Speed, Utility, Lifesteal are stats that benefit your DPS indirectly keeping you alive.
yeah 3 pd is a waste when over crit. Question is should lw or bc be included?

Like which is better? ie, pd, pd, bt, bt, bt or ie, pd, pd, bt, bt, bc/lw?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

SteppenKat

Senior Member

10-04-2012

If you want to slow, build Frozen Mallet... It procs in every hit. Two TrinF are a waste of gold, and some stats it gives aren't even useful for most carries.

If I want to max damage, I would go: Greaves, IE, BT, 2 PD and FM. The last item gives you a boost of HP which can make a difference in a TF big time. Also, it increases your DPS indirectly, since it takes a longer time for your opponent to get out of your range, which allows you to hit a couple more times. If we keep ourselves real, people won't just blast themselves to death. Usually people are running back and forth in TF and back off when they begin to be focused. That's why FM is so useful because it makes easier to focus. I can't say how much it helped me to chase enemies with half HP that I wouldn't have killed otherwise.

If the other team builds tanky (say TM and armor), I'd replace a PD and buy LW. TBC only reduces 45 armor, which is a very small debuff if we consider people tanks reach 200 armor and some offtanks 170. Reducing 40% of their armor doubles the debuff, so in fact you increase more your DPS against tanky champions when you pick LW.

TBC is useful in particular champions like Vayne (since it helps proc more often her Silver Bolts) or Kog'maw (the same with his W).


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Vasterole

Senior Member

10-04-2012

^ Ranged AD carries don't build frozen mallet.

In a ranked game you will need at least 1 item slot for a item like ga or qss. In many games this is my goal as ad carry: berserker boots, ie, 2pd, bt/bc, ga

Notice that you will probably have aura effects too. I love it when my support builds zekes.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

conductiv

Senior Member

10-04-2012

carries rely on autoattacks, and as a teams main form of consistent damage are supposed to clean up the fight. as such carries attack tanky characters in general.

using autoattacks means a carry benifits from crits, AS, armpen, lifesteal and raw AD. getting all these stats is mandatory. and most carries improve several of these stats in their runepage and masteries

besides boost (zerkers,mercs) generally IE, PD, BT, LW or BC. allows for:
-+50% crit dmg,
-+55% or +85% AS,
-+55% crit,
-40% or 45 armpen or flat armor reduction.
-+12-20% lifesteal
-+180-225 AD
-+15% MS (bonus that can be used in conjunction with boots to keep the enemy in range)

dependant on the carries loadout trinity can be picked (champion must have a 1-3 sec CD spamskill available, example coki)
dependant on champion loadout a AS build might be preferred (madreds bloodrazor, additional PD depends if the champion uses a lot of on hit effects, example kogmaw)
dependant on preference a champion can overload lifesteal (BT stacking), machinegun glass cannon (PD), or a more defensive aproach (GA, frozen mallet, warmogs,BV)

every build has its disadvantages, building little lifesteal and no defences makes you very suseptible to being plucked out by a bruiser/assasin, but you'll move fast and melt opposition like they are nothing. building lifesteal but no defences makes you very suseptible to CC based ganks, but more resiliant against bruisers and tanks as they can't win the damage race. building defences gives roughly a second more time to get away, but cuts deep into the carries DPS and lifesteal sustain (deu to the massive crit multiplier) as such choises have to be made based on the opposition and your teams ability to keep people off you/ your ability to stay out of harms way.

for instance tristana, corki,ezreal and tryndamere have little need for defensive items deu to their powerfull escape options. and corki/ez have spamspells, this might lead them to favor trinity force rather then a defensive item. (most include trinity in their core build instead of PD)


12