Elo Ranking proposition. Win/lose streaks.

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Markboss

Member

29-09-2011

Hi,

After some googling, asking some players who've been around longer than I have and experiencing it myself I came to the conclusion that the Elo Ranking in LoL does not got affected by win/lose streaks.

I think this is the biggest problem with the current ranking system. People describing so called 'Elo Hell' or 'being stuck' at a certain rating is all due to this flaw in the system, in my opinion.

Introducing a win/lose streak system in the current Elo Ranking system would fix a lot of these problems people describe.

After about 40-50 gamess, Elo gaining/loss is getting really slow. For people that lost the majority of their first few (40) games it will be close to impossible to get up to a higher Elo, simply due to the fact that this is a team game and it is very hard to carry 4 other people. Before people start screaming, CARRY OR YOU BELONG THERE, read below and I will explain why this is relevant.

If a win/lose streak system would be implemented it would give players the opportunity to still get to their current skill level.

I will make an example:
Say player A has a win/lose ratio of 25 wins to 19 losses and is currently at 1300 rating.
Player A will then win 3 times in a row and then lose a game.
Player A now has a 75% win ratio in his last 4 games.
The current system would grant him (let's say +-15 per game): 3x15 - 15 = 30 Elo rating.

With the streak implemented this would give player A (lets say +-15 per game, which increases by 5-15 the longer the streak goes on): 15+15+20 - 15 = 35 Elo rating. This doesn't seem like a huge difference but it will add up.
In order to avoid RANDOMNESS, win streaks should only start counting with a minimum of 3 wins

I made an example showing winstreak, of course it will go the other way around with lose streaks. What this will do in general, is get people that have a positive win/loss ratio (which generally tells you that you should GAIN rating) actually make them GAIN rating more rapidly. And of course the other way around for people with a negative win/loss ratio.

Now coming back to the CARRY OR YOU BELONG THERE phrase. A player can't ever carry every game, that's a fact, but if the player is better than the other players on his rating he should be able to carry (or win) the majority of his games (50%+ win/loss ratio).
This system will grant him that opportunity to gain rating which he deserves by winning the majority of his games.

TL;DR: after a lot of games in ranked you gain/lose to few rating to really climb the ladder, even if you play better than most of the people at your ranking. This method will fix that, hopefully. READ FULL POST PLEASE

Quote:
Originally Posted by AldarnX View Post
so if it's the same in the long run why does it matter?

i think losing more and more elo on a losing streak is gonna seriously demoralise players and cause them to lose even more
Demoralising, maybe. But more rewarding to keep your win streak up? Certainly.

Because in the 'long run', you will ALWAYS get to your skill level. The only problem right now is that after you've played so many games, you need to play A TON of games to get to your true rating.

This system will simply make this process faster. You might lose Elo faster sometimes, but fighting to keep your win streak up or breaking a losing streak will be worth the risk, in my opinion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GeekNius View Post
k, 'had to test this idea before posting, though it seemed ridiculous from the first moment I saw it.

Result: Yes, it is ridiculous.
- Variance up by more than 33% and actually RISING with number of games played,
- Number of significantly mis-placed players up more than 20 times, again RISING with number of games played,
- Elo extremes inflated significantly, instead of having players with 2.4k+ you'd end up with 4k+

Anything close to this idea would make solo-queue ladder completely random.

TL;DR: worst idea, ever.
This is not true and your numbers aren't based on any form of calculation.
Point 1: Variance will not be upped more than it is due to the system self-balancing.
Point 2:Random players will not win 3 or more games in a row and if they do, the must be doing something right. Therefor the system will reward them.
Point 3: Elo rating has a scale. If you are relitively high to other people in your game you will win relitively less rating then you would if they had the same rating as you. This would not be removed and will prevent high elo players to exceed a huge amount of rating. Of course the win streak system would be adapted to high elo of course, but there should be way to work around that. I.e. scaling with high Elo, win/lose streaks will be less effective the higher elo you become.


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Like a Hurricane

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Senior Member

29-09-2011

This would make elo even more random...


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AldarnX

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Senior Member

29-09-2011

yea great so if you get 3 crappy teams in a row you get punished even harder...


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Markboss

Member

29-09-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by AldarnX View Post
yea great so if you get 3 crappy teams in a row you get punished even harder...
In the long run this won't matter as you will maintain your positive win/lose ratio, that is if you are below your current skill level.
The whole idea of this implementation is to let people get to their true rating of skill faster. Wether that be lower or higher than your current rating.


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BEiFA

Senior Member

29-09-2011

THis is a gr8 idea hope riot will give this a look see.




Quote:
Originally Posted by AldarnX View Post
yea great so if you get 3 crappy teams in a row you get punished even harder...
Dude he sayed the example is 4 a win steak not a loss streak a loss streak would result in less and less alo lost / defeat insted of the usual -7~-8 now do u understand?


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AldarnX

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Senior Member

29-09-2011

so if it's the same in the long run why does it matter?

i think losing more and more elo on a losing streak is gonna seriously demoralise players and cause them to lose even more


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AldarnX

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Senior Member

29-09-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by BEiFA View Post
Dude he sayed the example is 4 a win steak not a loss streak a loss streak would result in less and less alo lost / defeat insted of the usual -7~-8 now do u understand?
Despite the lack of sense you're making:

Quote:
And of course the other way around for people with a negative win/loss ratio


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AB0SS

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Senior Member

29-09-2011

The idea is good, but the variance in skill to Elo becomes bigger, which is exactly against the point of matchmaking through Elo.


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BEiFA

Senior Member

29-09-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by AB0SS View Post
The idea is good, but the variance in skill to Elo becomes bigger, which is exactly against the point of matchmaking through Elo.
but yea for the first few games u will allways get people who are new to ranked vs people who already have exeperience in ranked take a look at me and my w/l ratio i lost my first few games and now im at 1.1k eo it's not fair. :S random people have a score of 2-3 and have 1.3k elo -.- that sounds retarded if u ask me.


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Markboss

Member

29-09-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by AldarnX View Post
so if it's the same in the long run why does it matter?

i think losing more and more elo on a losing streak is gonna seriously demoralise players and cause them to lose even more
Demoralising, maybe. But more rewarding to keep your win streak up? Certainly.

Because in the 'long run', you will ALWAYS get to your skill level. The only problem right now is that after you've played so many games, you need to play A TON of games to get to your true rating.

This system will simply make this process faster. You might lose Elo faster sometimes, but fighting to keep your win streak up or breaking a losing streak will be worth the risk, in my opinion.


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