[WIP] Counter-picks spreadsheet - help needed :)

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Sintrixy

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28-09-2011

Hi there community.


I've been working on a spreadsheet for counter picking in ranked/draft mode games, But some are more obvious than others, i went through it now, and for the rest part ill need some help filling out the gaps.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...JxV2c&hl=en_US

The document is visable, and edit-able by anyone, so feel free to help me & the community out - ill later lock it when the document is more accurate and complete.

PS: There is a backup file so don't worry

Thanks in Advance

Sintrixy EU-West


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Sintrixy

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28-09-2011

recommend updates through the chat


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Elemiro

Member

28-09-2011

Sivir = any AP champ with decent range + stun like morgana is a killer for her , also people shouldnt really bother countering her as she's very easy to kill if you can avoid the her Q.
Also any champ with heal makes her useless.


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Sintrixy

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30-09-2011

Getting close to finished, but still need help filling some of the gaps(highlighted grey) also to check the current counters for better alternatives or mistakes.

Recommend changes through the chat, i actively read it.


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Cowboyhat

Junior Member

30-09-2011

akali can't handle singed imo...

Singed needs solotop, best counter i totally can't handle top is Gangplank...

parrrrrley harras + the slow is terrible for singed.
You move in to poison or lasthit => parrrly
You move in to fling the ******* => parrrly + moral & (s)troll away

Garen & ww are good counterpicks but you forgot the best one TEEMO

Teemo instarapes singed. He does so much dmg from 1 hit. Range Psn > lay down Psn


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Cowboyhat

Junior Member

30-09-2011

Ashe => akali, jax, vayne

If you are talking about mid or top yes... But ashe is the champ that goes bot with a support & farms all day....

Sooooo good counters would be Cait / tristana /vayne because they can harass ashe harder then other way around. (depending on the kind of support ofc)


I would suggest a basic "Bot lane counter"

Bot lane can only have so many decent current meta lane combo's.

2x stun dps (sion/panth, ...)
Healer support + ad carry (sona/ali/soraka/taric/nidalee + cait/trist/kog/ashe/mf/corki/sivir/vayne/ezreal)
CC support + ad carry (janna/blitz/rammus/... + cait/trist/kog/ashe/mf/corki/sivir/vayne/ezreal)

For example:
Sion + panth => long range ad carry + sustain support (cait + soraka) => just farm don't try to fight cuz they'll pwn earlygame, outheal the harass
Ashe + soraka => easy countered by early game strong carries (vayne/trist/cait) + aggressive support (taric/ali) => kill them
(I'm not that experienced with ad carries so maybe some1 call fill the gaps + find me a counter vs cait + taric cuz i just feel like ragequitting when i see them)


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Cowboyhat

Junior Member

01-10-2011

One more:

Udyr counter: Jax & ww?

I assume you are talking about a solotop udyr who farms & farms & farms with turtle up. (they way i play him ^^)

I that case WW can't stop him. Jax can only win if udyr is stupid & autoattacks (tiger proc, stun & kite => repeat => jax dead).
Olaf actually was able totally shut me down top because of his insane early game dmg.

BUT i still think a decent heavy harass (low cd) ranged hero is best. AP heroes with slow like cassio or karthus that can dmg udyr every time he comes in for a lasthit (nuke through that turtle) or teemo again (so good vs melee bruisers), he runs so quick bearstance can't even touch him & he does so much dmg your turtle can't heal it. After lvl 6 he can shroomspam everything & udyr without movementspeed is totally useless.

Udyr is OP atm if he can catch teemo or cassi (by flashing) => bearstun => tiger proc (so much dmg) => ghost/exhaust/ignite.... they are most likely dead...

In the box: counter mechanics: " Deny him his lasthits, even under the turret! Since the recent patch he can't spam his turtle shield anymore. Harass him until he is oom and you will be able to make him recall. If you can push him out of his lane & you will shut him down completely"


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Sintrixy

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08-10-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboyhat View Post
One more:

Udyr counter: Jax & ww?

I assume you are talking about a solotop udyr who farms & farms & farms with turtle up. (they way i play him ^^)

I that case WW can't stop him. Jax can only win if udyr is stupid & autoattacks (tiger proc, stun & kite => repeat => jax dead).
Olaf actually was able totally shut me down top because of his insane early game dmg.

BUT i still think a decent heavy harass (low cd) ranged hero is best. AP heroes with slow like cassio or karthus that can dmg udyr every time he comes in for a lasthit (nuke through that turtle) or teemo again (so good vs melee bruisers), he runs so quick bearstance can't even touch him & he does so much dmg your turtle can't heal it. After lvl 6 he can shroomspam everything & udyr without movementspeed is totally useless.

Udyr is OP atm if he can catch teemo or cassi (by flashing) => bearstun => tiger proc (so much dmg) => ghost/exhaust/ignite.... they are most likely dead...

In the box: counter mechanics: " Deny him his lasthits, even under the turret! Since the recent patch he can't spam his turtle shield anymore. Harass him until he is oom and you will be able to make him recall. If you can push him out of his lane & you will shut him down completely"
Removed WW from Udyr counters.
Added Cassiopeia to Udyr counters.
Thanks for the feedback


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboyhat View Post
Ashe => akali, jax, vayne

If you are talking about mid or top yes... But ashe is the champ that goes bot with a support & farms all day....

Sooooo good counters would be Cait / tristana /vayne because they can harass ashe harder then other way around. (depending on the kind of support ofc)


I would suggest a basic "Bot lane counter"

Bot lane can only have so many decent current meta lane combo's.

2x stun dps (sion/panth, ...)
Healer support + ad carry (sona/ali/soraka/taric/nidalee + cait/trist/kog/ashe/mf/corki/sivir/vayne/ezreal)
CC support + ad carry (janna/blitz/rammus/... + cait/trist/kog/ashe/mf/corki/sivir/vayne/ezreal)

For example:
Sion + panth => long range ad carry + sustain support (cait + soraka) => just farm don't try to fight cuz they'll pwn earlygame, outheal the harass
Ashe + soraka => easy countered by early game strong carries (vayne/trist/cait) + aggressive support (taric/ali) => kill them
(I'm not that experienced with ad carries so maybe some1 call fill the gaps + find me a counter vs cait + taric cuz i just feel like ragequitting when i see them)
When i put Akali, Jax & Vayne I'm not talking so much about her laning phase, Rather what champions that can jump her and force her to run & Kite and still be useless, if she tryes to run & Kite Jax she'll be forced to auto attack and cause a dodge making jax able to stun her and rape her, if she arrows and kites that way jax wins: She just wasted ult. and he can jump to a nearby ward/minion/Friendly champ and gank her again in 20 seconds with ease.

And the same thing about Akali really, if she doesn't instantly completely rape her, its because she used ult which just gives akali a free gank in 20 seconds, And even if she tryes kiting or killing akali, akali still has the highest burst damage & lots of gap closers.

And if vayne plays agressively in her lane, she will win. since her laning phase damage is a lot higher than ashe's. And she can dodge Her arrow pretty easily with a fast tumble.

But thanks for the feedback


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboyhat View Post
akali can't handle singed imo...

Singed needs solotop, best counter i totally can't handle top is Gangplank...

parrrrrley harras + the slow is terrible for singed.
You move in to poison or lasthit => parrrly
You move in to fling the ******* => parrrly + moral & (s)troll away

Garen & ww are good counterpicks but you forgot the best one TEEMO

Teemo instarapes singed. He does so much dmg from 1 hit. Range Psn > lay down Psn
I've killed lots of Singed's in top as akali, if you just keep harassing him with Q's you can easily force him to play defensive. When she reaches level 6 all she needs to do is Get Q on him, wait a few seconds and then jump him get a AA, and another Q & AA off and she'll remove 40-60% of he's health pretty easily. and then she can jump to a nearby minion and shut him down completely from farming except from under he's turret where she can even continue to harass him if he tryes to poison the creeps up.

But yea she aint exactly a direct counter like Teemo GP or others who can slow. but she CAN tho use her shroud as a slow if neccesary.

So she's removed and added Vayne instead. Thanks for the feedback its appreciated


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Ald0Raine

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Senior Member

24-10-2011

have a look at this
http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/j2qqs/list_of_heroes_with_hard_and_soft_counters/
and this
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqzKxo_kFrKtdF9HZVYxd25xQlR6OGhJNk04bWJxV %202c&hl=en_US#gid=0


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MaxiBe├ža

Senior Member

24-10-2011

That document is actually very good. I recommend that you do a guide in one of the main guide websites, like Mobafire.

EDIT: Jax was actually very good vs Shaco, before the Gunblade nerf. Dunno how's it now.

I dont think Nasus is a good counter to GP, since Nasus's slow can be removed by GP, and he can harass nasus a lot by Parrrley. But maybe i just played vs bad Nasus.

Counter to Kayle: Use CC when she gets 50% and then burst her down before the CC is over. Then she cant ult. She will go down quick if the build is one of the most commons.

Yorick is good vs Kennen, due to the harass, and the life gain allows Yorick to beat Kennen 1v1 and eventually zone him out.


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