Why are Riot so bad at balance changes?

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Grogolog

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02-07-2011

it seems to take ages for riot to see if a champ in too strong or too weak and even longer to do anything about it that properly fixes it.

example a: rumble. hes been constantly very strong since release and is almost constantly banned in higher elo games. yet the only thing they changed about him was a slight dmg reduction on his ulti, yet it still hits **** hard anyway.

example b: lots of carrys like MF are far too strong early game. They are carrys, by definition they should be weak early and strong late game. MF has a pretty easy time in lane and doesnt get any weaker late game. carrys should not be like this.

example c: general overnerfs or overbuffs, eg the destruction of pantheon and eve. was there really any need to nerf these two so much that i barely ever see them played anymore?

side note: wtf is up with the vladimir buffs? i thought he was pretty good already.


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Jaylin

Senior Member

03-07-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grogolog View Post
it seems to take ages for riot to see if a champ in too strong or too weak and even longer to do anything about it that properly fixes it.

example a: rumble. hes been constantly very strong since release and is almost constantly banned in higher elo games. yet the only thing they changed about him was a slight dmg reduction on his ulti, yet it still hits **** hard anyway.

example b: lots of carrys like MF are far too strong early game. They are carrys, by definition they should be weak early and strong late game. MF has a pretty easy time in lane and doesnt get any weaker late game. carrys should not be like this.

example c: general overnerfs or overbuffs, eg the destruction of pantheon and eve. was there really any need to nerf these two so much that i barely ever see them played anymore?

side note: wtf is up with the vladimir buffs? i thought he was pretty good already.
Example a - They don't want to overnerf him, so they are taking it slow. His ulti IS the main reason he was banned so much, so it's the right place to hit him.

Example b - Carrys aren't that strong, they are good early game if paired up with a Support to babysit them. Even then, they are vulnerable to burst champs.

Example c - Yeah, overnerfs happen. Panth, Garen, Eve, etc. But they are isolated incidents.

Side note: What Vlad buffs? He's been consistantly nerfed for the last few patches. The only thing resembling a buff was a slight increase to base Q damage at low levels, but it came together with lower damage at high levels and longer CD, so even that was a nerf.

Overall, yeah, it sucks when a champ you happen to like gets a bad adjustment, but by and large the game is fairly balanced. There are no truly overpowered champs, just a number of slightly stronger ones. Also, it's hard to perfectly balance this many champs and MOBA games in general are not perfectly balanced, ever. Not even DOTA.


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Bazbhaz

Member

03-07-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaylin View Post

Example b - Carrys aren't that strong, they are good early game if paired up with a Support to babysit them. Even then, they are vulnerable to burst champs.

E.
U mean bursted by other Carry strong early game?


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KhaosChampion

Senior Member

03-07-2011

1 because they do
2 because they dont adress the problem, they just randomly nerf hoping it gets balanced

example:
teemo: the main issue with him was beeing able to push lanes with no risk due to shrooms and insane ms*regardless that yii/trynd with a cleanse can do better* now what did they do...they nerfed cd on shrooms...k, they nerfed cd on move quick....k...they nerfed dmg on shrooms?....why? if they rly needed 1 more nerf they could have nerfed the slow, the moove speed boost while not beeing hit,his base ms, his activated moove quick ms...no they nerfed dmg, that had nothing to do with the issue what so ever, he used to be useless past 30 mins,now he is generally useless
rammus....people kept complaining about him, 2 long taunt etc...they nerfed allmost everything except the taunt gj....
eve...her main issue as they say was the fact that she is invisble and she can jungle....now a rly good moove would have been to inspire counterplay...like adding another anti invi itemn*dust from dota if its a must* or adding invi revealing to some summoner spells*like lets say cv?*, or to some existing champions....no they nerfed, nerfed than struck the final blow by removing her stun...atm u see the result, useless past bot games
flash-> its a ever hated spell, and a problematic one...people hate someone escaping simply becos he can press flash,they cant remove it since some champs rely on it to initiate....they choose to do nothing*and with the stun removal they actually buffed it since its one less anti flash hero*, now again learning from other people who faced this issue...dota had the same thing on dagger...what did they do...simple u cant flash if uve been hit in the last 3 seconds makes it less of a noob escape tool , its still a initiation tool*even tho it looses a bit of value*
as a side note...a general good suggestion on solving some op laners would be to add the blasting wand itemn*itemn that gets charges on spells cast, enemy or aly and can be used to restore health/mana based on how many charges u have* would srsly be good counter to some of them *op* champs like vlad,rumble aswell ass most supports that make laning ohh so booring

as general ideea the reason riot fails at balancing is because in stead of going for counter play they just go right ahead and hit everything with the nerfhammer, or in some cases overbuff*example..pantheon might become rly good if they'd add some sort of pure ad itemn, not a high one, just a cost effcient ad nuker mid oriented itemn


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Oxid3

Senior Member

03-07-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grogolog View Post
it seems to take ages for riot to see if a champ in too strong or too weak and even longer to do anything about it that properly fixes it.
do u kind sir truly belive that insta applied hotfixes without reliable data, based on qq of few forum active players would globaly better ballance this game ? Im not even talking about required additional downtimes and stability issues ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grogolog View Post
example a: rumble. hes been constantly very strong since release and is almost constantly banned in higher elo games. yet the only thing they changed about him was a slight dmg reduction on his ulti, yet it still hits **** hard anyway.
rumble is troublesome child ... his viability is build around his flamethrower, you can nerf it but at the same time you will most probably make another up and underplayed champion. That's why they tweak around other abilities bringing down overall dmg to more acceptable levels but at the same time retaining his viability ... apperently you wasn't around ez op times, don't know how the mighty have fallen and how long he had to wait for some compensation. Beside adressing champion core issues you have to know how much they impact his gameplay and viability ....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grogolog View Post
example b: lots of carrys like MF are far too strong early game. They are carrys, by definition they should be weak early and strong late game. MF has a pretty easy time in lane and doesnt get any weaker late game. carrys should not be like this.
right now ranged dps don't have strong early game at all ... autoattack dmg is very weak and they don't really have mana to spamma abilities. It's more about keeping enemy in check rather than having strong line presence. But if you allow them to build up dmg it will hurt in the long run. In your particular case most probably you should learn how to position yourself to counterplay double up, dodge make it rain and pop strut


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grogolog View Post
example c: general overnerfs or overbuffs, eg the destruction of pantheon and eve. was there really any need to nerf these two so much that i barely ever see them played anymore?
that happens when champion viability is build around single mechanics. Both pantheon and eve players abused stun + free dmg by stacking dmg items. There was little to none counterplay against this and ballancing other areas wasn't helping at all


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Mr Bobi

Junior Member

30-04-2014

Katharina is a good Example, Everybody sais , CC Her and she is dead.
But you can't get her stunned, thats the prob.
Buying Magic resist ? Good idea, but then you cannot make enought damage to burst her down because she needs 2 ap to make 7 pentas in a row ...
How to make this guys tell me.


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Dame

Senior Member

30-04-2014

The balance become more worse with every patch, so sad.


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Stalima

Senior Member

30-04-2014

Question: Why are Riot so bad at balance changes?

Answer: because you do not agree with them.





ok thread over now move along


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Whowantstofish

Senior Member

30-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bobi View Post
Katharina is a good Example, Everybody sais , CC Her and she is dead.
But you can't get her stunned, thats the prob.
Buying Magic resist ? Good idea, but then you cannot make enought damage to burst her down because she needs 2 ap to make 7 pentas in a row ...
How to make this guys tell me.
CC'ing Kat is hilariously easy lol....just hold a spell (such as fiddle's fear) until she jumps into the team and click on her asap...she will be dead very very quickly. People say a similar thing about Yi....interesting that at the highest levels he is never banned and never played either. Why? because the guys playing at that level have learnt how to play against him. Kata has high damage on her ult due to the horribly poor ratios on her other abilities, so stopping her ult (and since its a channel most forms of cc will stop it) basically gets rid of her power


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Something Insane

Senior Member

30-04-2014

Quote:
Katharina is a good Example, Everybody sais , CC Her and she is dead.
But you can't get her stunned, thats the prob.
Due to her channeling ult, CC is sure bad for her and if you can't CC her, you need to practice more, she is not a viable pick in high ranked games, because she CAN get stunned or whatsoever, she fails more than she succeeds. Katarina seems only OP in lower levels where players don't know how to counter her, but that changes later on.


Quote:
Buying Magic resist ?
If you can't CC her, Zhonya's is your best friend. Again, all she has is her ult, compared to that her other abilities sukk, so pop Zhonya's when she ults or as said above > CC, job done.


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