AD Katarina: The undisputed solo-mid King

12345 ... 7
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

LazerGunPewPew

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Member

05-06-2011

So I'm sick of hearing "omg AD kata noob?!?!?111!?!1"

Before I begin, I wish to introduce myself as an ex-veteran dota player, as well as having played this game for a number of yrs so as not to confuse myself for a random troll or noob spouting nonsense, I assure you that my wisdom and knowledge of this game is quite extensive. Having quit this game for a while, I have returned to find my favourite AD meat-grinder has been swayed to an AP wh*re. Let me summarize my message to you inexperienced (AP) kata players out there in 5 words:

"no! you're doing it wrong!"

I realize at this current point in time, I am probably the ONLY one in the world who plays AD katarina with good reason. I will discuss this highly controversial topic and argument in great detail, so if you are looking for some light reading, you should probably look elsewhere.

Upon my return, I have found some major changes to katarina:

Bouncing Blades (BB):

AD now 80% (instead of 100%)
AP now 35% (instead of 0%)

Death Lotus (DL):

AP = 0.25 (instead of 0.3)
AD = 0.5 (instead of 0.55)

The important thing is that AD ratio for BB is still higher and that damage from death lotus in AD build is not too overshadowed by an AP user. In fact, AD ultimate still does higher damage according to single AD versus AP items such as BF sword (AD item) versus needlessly large rod (AP item):

http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Katar...ms=110&level=1
http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Katar...ems=48&level=1

Important to note here, is that BF sword does more damage for both BB and death lotus, for roughly the same price. I will explain more in-depth about item builds later.
------------------------------------------
It is important to note that this guide is based on the MECHANICAL SETUP of the champion, rather than solely proof of skill. However, in order to play katarina effectively, and to maximize the performance of this guide, you will need a good sense of self-awareness, know about zoning (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kxGQ3gWdrM - I didn't make this video), know how to look for and be able to consistently gank enemies, have fast high-eye coordination and fast reflexes - if you think about these features, it's basically everything you need in order to be a great assassin. In other words, Riot did a great job in making katarina's role/gameplay.

Firstly, I must explain to you the concept of katarina play and the importance for stacking stats for EARLY gameplay. As an assassin such as katarina. It is absolutely ESSENTIAL that you get kills early and get them quickly. Agreed? Otherwise, it doesn't matter how fed you are late game, tanks will steamroll you, and in group fight, you will be first target (same goes for most low hp DPS champions), and furthermore, your ulti will be near useless, due to insta-cast "crowd control" (cc) spells.

**This makes katarina an early game dominance champion, who gradually loses her usefulness to the team as time passes.

So how do we structure a build that requires EARLY game domination? As a katarina player in mid, you should focus on killing champions BEFORE LEVEL 6. She has the potential, and you should enhance this in whatever way possible. If you cannot get a kill before level 6, you can at least ensure that your opponent has either gone back to base to get HP (thus losing xp and gold every second they are away, and giving you the advantage) or they are low hp, ready for you to tower dive them with a deadly combination of killer instincts, shunpo, BB, death lotus, exhaust, and ignite burst damage for the kill. This method is overkill, but ensures you get the kill.

However, it must be said, that high-tier games won't have noob opponents, and most likely the situation will result in you forcing your opponent back to base. This will still give you the advantage in xp and gold. Ideally, If I haven't killed you as katarina in mid by level 14, you are either of two things: you have escaped behind your tower with less than 100hp several times and/or you have ported back to base to heal. These two usually happen in conjunction, resulting in the enemy losing gold and xp over time, which is less beneficial to a katarina player as you would prefer the kill for bonus xp and gold, but still nerfs the enemy somewhat, forcing them into your pace, possessing lane control, and denying minion kills.

I will now discuss the most effective way to play kata in 3 stages of the game: early, mid and late game. As aforementioned, tanky champions will gain an advantage over you in due time, and hence, late game should be kept to a minimal if you have any hope of carrying the team to win a match. That said, this brings us to the first contrversial topic of early game abilities:

EARLY GAME: BOUNCING BLADE (AD builds) VERSUS SHUNPO (AP builds):

This in my opinion, is a no-brainer, but for some reason, the shift in logic has turned for the worst resulting in many players choosing shunpo. Although, it's perfectly fine to do so, I assure you that BB is a much better choice to max first. For this reason, it is enough to justify playing AD, as many players had done so 1-2yrs+ ago, before the 2 major patches favouring AP style materialized. Refer back to the top, where I stated AD builds are still better for BB due to the ratio (0.8 vs 0.3).

Having played both AP/AD, let me first explain the playstyle concepts of each. If you are going AP like every typical katarina player out there, you will use "shunpo" as your major nuke spell. Admittedly, this does do a great deal of damage mid-game, and perhaps late game too provided you are fed/doing well. However, this approach is high-risk especially in group fights, once u shunpo into any situation, u have no escape, you will be within melee range, with a low auto attack damage - generally unwise to do so as an assassin - you will be setting yourself up to die if you don't get a kill with your ultimate.

This is why BB harassal is and should be your main focus tool to get your opponent's HP below half before diving in with shunpo and relying as little time on your ultimate as possible. In other words, your bouncing blade harassal should be THE MAIN FOCUS of your item build - not shunpo or your ultimate. Why? because Shunpo harassal could never achieve this in early game and no player is stupid enough to stand close to you for the full 3 seconds of your ultimate. In fact, if you dive in with shunpo repeatedly, you will end up dying fast and feeding opponent teams, especially to ranged fast AD dps or casters with CC or stun (that's basically every type of champ that goes mid right? duh).

**NOTE, AP/shunpo build kata FORCES you to wait to level 6 before you could even begin to be effective in killing...you are wasting precious time in harassing the enemy from level 1 to gain an advantage. Instead of playing AD with BB and setting yourself up to kill the opponent AS SOON AS YOU DING 6, as a typical AP user you basically NEED to wait till level 6 (unless your opponents mess up), like the rest of the noobs in mid, thus losing your chance for pre-emptive strike - an essential for a pro assassin. OF course, some will argue that AP can in fact can get early game kills before level 6, but I assure you, if you can do this with shunpo, you can do it much more effectively with BB.

**NOTE AD/BB kata allows you to repeatedly throw annoying daggers at your opponents from a potential range GREATER than any caster or fast AD champion in early game (levels 1-5), making effective harassal to opponent HP, while your champion loses minimal HP - something that AP shunpo users cannot achieve. This allows you to play katarina almost like a ranged champion, relying completely on BB to do 99% of your damage till it is the time to shunpo in and finish them in an instant - like a true assassin.

Having maximized BB skill first and foremost along with AD items such as BF sword, it will undoubtedly do more damage than shunpo maxed. Arguably the damage difference may not come from single cast between BB and shunpo, but rather from the frequency in which you get to cast BB in a real game. Whats more, Shunpo does have a bigger "INITIAL" range, but BB has a much bigger "POTENTIAL" range. How many of you kata players actually use BB to its full potential at early game? It is almost impossible to dodge a BB if your opponents are standing close to incoming minions (99% you will be, even if you play katarina). And with killer instincts, the initial BB damage is done on them, which will be higher than shunpo damage after early item stacking, which i will explain later. For this reason, you are able to start killing as soon as level 3-4. Why? BB harassal is much safer, so you use it much more frequent than shunpo, you take less tradeoff damage from opponents when using BB than when you use shunpo (obviously), and ultimately, it does higher damage over time due to the luxury of casting BB at a distance, whereas shunpo will place you in enemy territory.

So, are we disregarding this highly useful shunpo skill? No. Early game as an AD/BB kata, you use it as a positioning tool to sure-hit your bouncing blade, and thus increases your TRUE range of attack (combining the range of shunpo and range of BB) to land your BB, especially when killer instincts is on cooldown. This ensures your enemy takes the full blunt of BB, everytime you cast it. This advanced technique, although simple, I have never seen any other kata's do - and one of the main reasons is because AP kata's will use it as a direct damage tool rather than a positioning tool. If you chose to use shunpo as an EARLY positioning tool, you can pull off tricks such as shunpo on minions 2 steps behind your opponent, forcing them to take a longer Death Lotus as they run back towards their base. AP users can't do this, as they rely on shunpo damage too much, using it on the enemy champion, thus placing you next to them, and giving them the opportunity to flash away or simply run away with less damage. I will point out the usage of shunpo in AD/BB style later in short clips that I recorded especially for this post. Of course, shunpo is also used as an escape tool for incoming enemy side lane ganks.

MID-GAME: AD versus AP - item builds become apparent

**remember, your goal is to kill EARLY to ensure quick games (~30mins), at 45mins, your killing potential and usefulness to the team, declines RAPIDLY.
The truth is, all those AP builds out there are for LATE/END game. You will never get your full build finished as an AP user, if you do, then you have not been playing katarina effectively, and/or your team has consistently fed the enemy enough for them to recover all your kills, and balancing the game. This is why you need to stack stats for EARLY game, in order to farm kills and solo feed yourself firstly from mid, then gank sides if possible, not only to buy items, but also to repeatedly nerf any enemies that overextend, thus carrying your team in two ways.

Assuming both builds go for boots first, we move to next items:
If you are an AP user, you will start to buy items like mejai soulstealer, hextech revolver as part of hextech gunblade, blasting wand as part of rylai's scepter/deathcap etc, in the hopes of achieving late game items.

As an AD user, you will be focused on stacking items such as BF swords like your life depended on it. Allow me to explain the cost/damage payoff in relation to the limited timezone that katarina can kill easily and effectively:

As an AP user, getting any of those starting items above, such as blasting wand, hextech revolver, or mejai results in a much lower damage output than if you were to save your gold for an AD build BF sword:

http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Katarina/

go ahead and try compare the damage output of katarina skills with early AP item combinations, against a BF sword. There is no competition. BF sword wins hands down. That's obvious. Suppose you argue that it costs more: as you build AP, one of the first items you go for is a Rylai scepter for its slow for her ulti and shunpo. Rylai scepter costs 3105gold, whereas 2x BF sword costs 3300:

http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Katar...ms=84&level=18 (rylai)
VERSUS
http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Katar...48,48&level=18 (2x BF sword)

The damage from AD build for BB is tripled per cast (72 versus 24), and AD ultimate does 25.5 more damage than AP in this case. Thats 110.55 per hit versus 85.05 with a slow. Of course AP shunpo also gets a boost of 60damage. I gave this example because BF sword is better damage than any early game AP item, and also for mid game, 2x BF sword can be acquired faster than say Deathcap (3600 gold). Of course, you will never go for deathcap first as an AP user, you'd have to be playing pretty badass to achieve that.
It is clear, that a continual BB harassal from a distance of an AD user as it bounces into the enemies' face, is a much better damage tool than to shunpo into enemies head first (and also risk diving into towers range continuously). Because of this, fighting opponents with equally good harass, such as kassadin, zilean, vayne, even the occasional vladamir or fat tanks like morde you will be helpless against. As an AD/BB katarina, I have and will continually be able to kill these in mid. This is achieved, simply due to the survivability of BB versus shunpo.

**NOTE: As an AD user, the damage output for your better harassal tools (BB) AND your ultimate does MORE damage than the typical AP user at this point (early AND mid game). This can be due to AP users investing in lower grade items to build parts of end game AP items as mentioned above, instead of investing in a high damage item such as B.F. sword. Furthermore, AD does more damage for BB, so even if you buy Needlessly Large Rod, you're still doing less damage with BB.

**NOTE: Purchasing AP items once again decreases your EARLY game performance, especially if you go for rylai, u waste 1100 gold on giant's belt, which doesn't increase damage output at all. Suppose rylai slow works (it isn't great..only 15% slow for multi-target damage over time spells), 2x BF sword killing enemies faster in early group encounters are indeed better than any slow can offer, as any cc will interrupt your ultimate. If you want slow, go for exhaust. At this transition point in the game from early to mid game phase is where you dominate the most. If you manage to rack enough kills already to buy 2BF swords, this is the time you will get, triple and quadra kills easy forcing the opponent to surrender.

Just ignore the noobs who cry OP saying katarina is a brainless champion that only needs to hit "R". They clearly never played her or realize how easy it is to drop her. To put it blunt, you need faster fingers than your opponents to deal mass damage as quick and accurate as you can control her, picking up kills by the element of surprise and leaving before she gets blown to shreds by crossfire cc spells.

**NOTE: AD build also increases the ALL important killing blows and last hits of auto attks, and destroying towers early-mid game. In addition, if your ultimate gets interrupted, your auto attack plays a major role in chasing and last hitting while all of your skills are on cooldown. AP users will have low base AD the whole game through, making them more limited once again.

**NOTE: AP katarinas level shunpo maxed first, this also decreases the ability for her to minion farm. at early game AND mid game - one BB cast can almost if not entirely kill all 3 caster minions in the back, until eventually your BB is powerful enough to wipe an entire minion wave.

Hence, it is very clear, that AD dominates both EARLY AND MID GAME much faster and much more effectively than AP users. This sentence alone should summarize why an AD build is STILL a better pick for assassin champions such as katarina.

LATE GAME:

It has been noted several times in popular guides that AP builds eventually allows Death Lotus to do more damage than AD. This is mostly due to the new AP item "Rabadon's deathcap", along with some patch updates that favours Katarina AP style - clearly Riot wants everyone to play AP katarina -_-.

As mentioned, katarina is an assassin, that NEEDS kills early game, waiting around for other champions to complete their builds results in katarina being ineffective at killing opponents solo, and relying on teamkills and killsteals, which is definitely not what you should be doing. Because AP items take so long and so much gold to complete compared to massive early game damage items like BF sword, you give tanks and late game champions a higher chance at feeding before you even complete your first AP item. This time lost is crucial for making ganks, even as early as when u ding level 5 in mid, your opponents from side will never suspect a gank from mid even if they call "ss".

Deathcap costs 3600 gold, combine that with hextech blade (3625), and rylai's (3105), I bid you good luck in farming and killstealing all your team to get that gold, due to your lesser ability to acquire kills efficiently early game as a mid carry.

http://s744.photobucket.com/albums/x...ent=kataAD.jpg

AD items 1825 (bilgewater cutlass) + 1650 gold (BF sword) was all I needed to destroy the opponents in that game, and many of my other games.

or http://s744.photobucket.com/albums/x...t=Untitled.jpg

So why not buy Needlessly Large rod first? Because as an AP user, you want those end item benefits such as rylai slow and hextech spell vamp for a start, and secondly, your auto attk still isn't boosted for last hit and tower kills, thirdly, your BB harassal will be lower damage than buying a BF sword.

To play an assassin, you need to think like an assassin, win mid early, gank sides early, win game fast.

To those guys who build AP with stats like 30-2, 52-6 etc etc. What kind of noob games are they playing to have to kill the opponent 30 or even 52 times to win the game? With an AD build, you will find you win the same game with an example k:d ratio of 9-1, 12-3, at max 20+ kills. The misconception of getting MORE kills in longer games is NOT better than getting lower kills in a short game. In fact, winning a game early (20-30mins) just goes to show how much more superior at controlling the game you are than those typical AP user, as the saying goes "the early bird catches the worm". The opponent feels so hopeless about the game, that they surrender by 20-30mins. This is how a true katarina assassin SHOULD be played. Instead of waiting to get fed in mid-late game, stacking 4 deathcaps and a rylai scepter to get 50 kills. AD katarina thrives at killing everybody BEFORE their full builds are near completion. This is the main principle that AD kata holds, which is similar to how an assassin functions: killing opponents before they are fully prepared for your onslaught.

Unfortunately, at high Elo games, smart players CAN avoid some daggers, which prolongs the dance in mid before the first blood is drawn. However, with this AD setup, I can guarantee that with sufficient skill, you won't lose mid, and you will trade blow after blow in succession and wear out the enemy due to the fact you have NO MANA. I have stayed on lanes for up to 13levels with nothing but a regrowth pendant, while consistently farming kills from opponents.

Hybrid Late game play:

However, when your team ain't doing so good, and you're the only champ with any kills in your team. The outcome of the game will rely completely on your shoulders. In this position, you KNOW the game will drag on late, and this is when switching to an AP hybrid after you have purchased your first BF sword, will come in handy. In this way, you have the beauty of EARLY - MID game dominance, with early AD style, AND the benefits of late-game AP shunpo and hard-hitting deathcap lotus. This will open up auto-attk last hitting abilities and tower destruction potential in early game, hextech blade slows (AP/AD item) before a deadly death lotus from a combination of BF sword AD damage and a Rabadon Deathcap AP damage.

This switch to AP (hybrid build) is advantageous over a full on AD build, because Deathcap is a single item that does more damage than 2x BF swords. This saves item slots for end game and also opens up shunpo as another nuke spell, thus allowing the continuing benefit of BB, shunpo and death lotus to be effective from EARLY game all the way through to END game, and allows katarina end game potential to be slightly more effective due to the overall increase in damage output.

To summarize:

AD is best early game for kills, through to mid game. If you are pro versus beginner-intermediate players. This AD build/playstyle is all you will need to finish and completely carry your team and dominate the game.

AP excels end game, and extends katarina viability to kill 1v1 situations in late game and group fights alike. With a full-on AD build, you may lose the potential to kill a tanky dps/tank champions for example xin zhao/mordekaiser towards mid-late game. But switching to AP as you gradually finish leveling shunpo will open up an extra 500+ instant burst damage, that may very well be the killing blow.

AD build = BB + ultimate
AP build = shunpo + ultimate
Hybrid = BB + shunpo + ultimate

SKILL ORDER:

To play my style of katarina, you need quick hands, good self-awareness and good hand-eye coordination, this is because you need to press the following buttons for kills for burst damage early game: w>e>q>r>d>f, which translates to killer instincts, shunpo (for damage reduction effect), BB, ultimate, exhaust + ignite for complete burst damage. When you have acquired hextech blade/cutlass mid-late game, your button presses changes slightly: w>e>1>q/r>d>f. The "1" being hextech blade for extra damage and slow. This dual slow with exhaust will allow more time for landing ultimate on opponent if done correctly.

I realize some of my words will fall on deaf ears, so what more effective way to demonstrate what I am saying than some videos of AD playstyle with early game domination, where AP may fail:

I use mirror kata clips to show you how this playstyle is the most efficient in killing versus AP kata, while prolonging survivability. I use a vayne clip pre-patch to show how to beat vayne at her own harassing game despite the fact she does an insane amount of damage early game, and it's the only clip I have before they nerfed her. I use a morde clip to show how to kill one of the best tanks in the game in mid. And if you can kill morde in mid, you can be confident that your setup for damage output and defensive mechanism is amongst the best. READ THE DESCRIPTION, because it is hard to record by explaining both the concept and what's happening in the clip at the same time, so I must correct myself through the description.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glJYNQyE9k0 - kata vs vayne
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSILB_kvJ3U - kata vs kata mirror
** http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oz1XhbRvP00 - kata vs mordekaiser

I must emphasize, that this is a guide for the Mechanistic setup and not for extending my ego in terms of skill. For this reason, I'm not showing the countless vids where I rack multiple double, triple and quadra kills in a game, as this is an easy achievement in any game when playing fed katarina. Instead, I focus the clips on early game domination in order to reach this stage of ultimate fed pwnage. You will see how I always have lane control (by pure mechanical setup), whether I kill the enemy champion or not is up to how much experience and skill I possess to get that final blow, in all honesty - I do fail sometimes and allow them to escape.

**Also, you will see I don't focus on CS kills, because I'm too busy focusing on dropping the enemy health bar. However, due to my constant BB harassal, your enemy can't farm CS kills neither. Thus, allowing you to control the pace of the game leading to lane domination.

If you STILL dont believe me...I'm open to a 1v1 custom (; after that, if you still don't then what can I say... ignorance is bliss

Lastly, if this rant gets popular, I will reveal a more guide-based post of runes/masteries/item builds that I have tested.

So next time when you see a Katarina player buying amplifying tome (+20ability power) as a first item; do the LoL world justice and tell him to check this post, and stop flaming AD kata's - cos those AD katas are probably better players than you!

P.S. I am continuously collecting videos of AD kata play during matches so that I can show exactly how I beat every single champion by the same tactic. I have a lot of clips to go through, and limited hard disk space so it is difficult to record everything.

Challengers so far:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8Zkvj5jtTI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grk6BajD0Cg


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

paShadoWn

Senior Member

06-06-2011

Oh do shut up. Go search for Shinius on uTube and stop to waste words to "prove sumfink". (Desire to "ppprove" is aftereffect of poorly cleansed taunt) Unless you scrub them from the curses they are crawling with, they would not comprehend bcs they are at large can't. I advise you to go through a few scores of Tribunal cases to see for yourself: speaking to sheepies could be more fruitful than to these erm creatures. Most they can do is to - with effort - remember how to group up push mid with builds copied to the letter from "most popular" guide. These are slaves, not warriors. Decay of collective minds had reached unbelievable proportions of now. Though wasn't it ever?.. And i, myself, do not believe you. Like heck i would waste faith so. "Be-leeeve meee..." Heck you. Wat i believe, is that u nab and i shall pwn you if we (by chance) meet. 1v1 custom proves nothing; ur "same tactic" is to press W,E,Q, repeat, press R, kill nab who can't keep distance and/or not bothered with hitpoints. Or bunch of the stray feedlings. Go kill farmed Mordekaiser in front of full formation midlane with ur "tactic".

Quote:
Originally Posted by LazerGunPewPew View Post
So next time when you see a Katarina player buying amplifying tome (+20ability power) as a first item; do the LoL world justice and tell him to check this post, and stop flaming AD kata's - cos those AD katas are probably better players than you!
Prooobably i... i woulda kill ya cur!.. Or... Or maybe noottt...
You misunderstand the definition of justice. I, when see Kata buying amp tome, do the LoL world justice and slay her. Many times. (Or not.) A good illustration of how true justice looks like might oft be found in some sidebushes, spinning sword. DAMACIA!!!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

LazerGunPewPew

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Member

06-06-2011

Can't keep distance? I'm tower diving to kill in most games. There is no greater barrier to overcome in early game than tower shots. By chance? I'd be happy to shut you up wit a custom 1v1. I put my money where my mouth is, not "by chance". In fact, I have already accepted a challenge versus fiddle 5mins after i posted this and destroyed him, I'l upload this video soon.

"same tactic" is to press W,E,Q, repeat, press R" u clearly dont understand what i've posted, so why bother? Ive explained thoroughly the difference between using shunpo as a position tool versus dmg tool, which most kata's dont realize how important it is to use for better harassal. It seems this guide is too complex for you to follow? Most of what you've written is just jibberish, no concepts or points to counter the strategies I use.

and for your info I have fought several champions with base increase HP runes and defeated them. You don't understand the importance of hp regen over base hp runes. At low levels, hp runes only give you around 100hp if not lower. HP regen gives you this hp back within 20-30seconds. This recovery is possible because of the down time between trading blows where you stand defensively near your tower. In otherwords, hp regen beats base hp runes bonus early game, and is part of early game dominance.

FYI, I have a clip of a morde who has base hp runes, he gets 3regrowth pendants and a doran's shield to completely nullify my magic dmg. But with the help of a tower i kill him. I will get around to posting this soon.

You say custom 1v1 is nothing? I'm demonstrating only how to lane in mid, in particularly early game, to score kills early so you can aid side lanes. How is this be irrelevant? The earlier you can score a kill in mid, the earlier you can help sides.

Your Shinius friend is just posting random clips of him gettin double/triple kills, its not even worth watching. I show how to get to the stage where I'm farmed, not when i'm already farmed and dominating. You're all words, with nothing to back it up. Go ahead and challenge me to a game, and i'l be glad to post a video of your defeat.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

LazerGunPewPew

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Member

06-06-2011

I understand how hard it is for others to believe this playstyle and concept, as no one likes being called "wrong". Whenever I play AD kata the way I do, people sometimes questions at start, calling "noob" before I even begin because it is not what they're used to. That is why I post this guide. However, when the games done, I'm flooded with questions on what my build is, what my masteries are and so on, after the results demonstrated by my playstyle in the game.

As I said, I understand some of my words will fall on deaf ears if you are a person who is looking at the post with a closed mindset. You already think you've tried everything and think what works for you will always work, because the noob games you play leaves your method unchallenged. I have been playing katarina almost since she was out, and with this experience is why I'm confident enough to post this elaborate guide. Don't mistake it for being cocky.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Puschel the Soft

Senior Member

06-06-2011

@ lazer:
Your post is WAY too long to read.
I don't know if you included this, but AD is approx. twice the price of AP.
So for the money of 1 AD (which gives you 0.8 BB damage) you can get 2 AP (which is 0.7 BB damage, not that much of a difference).
The big BUT here is: While being at almost the same BB damage early, AP builds also deal good shunpo damage AND can get rabbadon's later. With rabbadons those 0.7 BB damage suddenly turn into 0.91, so as soon as you have rabbadon's AP actually gives you even more damage/money on BB than AD.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

grack sparrow

Senior Member

06-06-2011

It's not too long to read, you're just stupid. It is a very well written post and although i don't play kat i will now try her sometime AD


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

LazerGunPewPew

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Member

06-06-2011

@puschel U clearly dont have an open mind, and havent read the majority of what i've posted.

I wrote at the start "so if you are looking for some light reading, you should probably look elsewhere."
As for the maths on AP versus AD. I already showed some calculations on how AD is cheaper and more effective early game, which is what a katarina needs in order to get early advantage in game for early kills.

All AP guides show how damage is maximized at END game, this is not what katarina needs. Katarina needs to dominate at early game, and hence those AP guides dont allow you to kill efficiently early, as you will be waiting just like everyone else in the game to complete your AP items.

Its simple logic.

Read "MID-GAME" section above, it explains clearly why a BF sword is the best choice after boots. It maximizes BB and ultimate damage, and does more damage at this point than any early AP item. Any end game AP item you build costs over 3k, this takes too much time to build, and enemies such as tank may be already too farmed by then, and you will stand no chance. This is why u need an early heavy damage item to cut them off and farm them as best you can BEFORE they get their full builds.

If you were to save directly for Rylai's or rabadon's it may already be too late, especially in high tier games.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

mekabar

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Member

06-06-2011

I understand your argument towards BB over Shunpo, in fact this is how im doing it too, but im really not sold on your AD over AP argument. Yes BB scales marginally better with AD than AP, but not in any way noticable, especially early game.

Longsword = 10 * 0.8 = 8
Amp. Tome = 20 * 0.35 = 7

So no, this really isn't a valid argument. Futhermore due to Rabadons AP scales a lot better with itself than AD, which is enough to supercede the gap, and thats even neglecting the fact that Shunpo doesn't scale with AD at all. So unless you can somhow make good use of your increased auto attack damage, I dont see how this is going to be a viable alternatvie to AP.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

LazerGunPewPew

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Member

06-06-2011

once again, you're missing the point mekabar. I dont get longsword, I get BF sword (1650 gold). And also, its early-mid game transition that item builds become noticeable, that is when you can afford BF sword.

Because katarina has a naturally damage boost due to Killer Instincts, you dont need to buy any early game item besides boots with +20magic penetration. The gold you save is best saved for BF sword after, instead of amplifying tome or any other early AP item such as blasting wand, mejai (risky), hextech revolver. BF sword costs slightly more, and is a higher tier item than those early AP items.

But this gold save doesnt cripple you early or mid game due to killer instincts boost. Whereas saving your gold for a complete AP item such as rabadon will cripple your mid game damage. Also if you buy blasting wand or needlessly large rod, you will do less damage with BB than BF sword. The item build revolves largely on the TIMEFRAME which a lot of you seem to be misunderstanding.

Thanks for the feedback though Mekabar, much appreciated. I'm in process of recording first challenge I received from yesterday, will give you a better insight into how I scale AD items from early - mid to finish game early, thus will cancel out the need to save for rabadon or other end game AP items when you are winning early.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Yiyas

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

06-06-2011

About the most AD you'd get is 300-400, while on AP you're looking at 600-1000.

I see no mention of speed, spd or per second so I'm guessing you're ignoring that you'd have autoattack dps in this entirety of this lengthy post. Kat has a decisive weakness like most high damage characters, it's exhaust. When a Kat doesn't pick exhaust and decides to go 1v1 she will lose.


12345 ... 7