Vayne and Trinity force...

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OdensFalcon

Member

03-06-2011

So, basically, i think TF is way too overrated for her. I know the proc from Sheen, which is then implemented in it, is very nice, the chance to slow your enemies too, about adding survivability...well, 250 hp is not gonna save you lategame, the AP on it is completely wasted gold, mana should be wasted gold too, you don't need so much of it, maybe until you reach lvl 6, but who can afford TF so soon...noone.

Instead of TF, i go for Phantom dancer, it gives you truckload of AS, which synergizes with Silver Bolts, more Movement speed than TF, which helps you chase/run away better, twice the crit you get from TF.

My usual build goes Doran's Blade, Zerker greaves, Vampiric Scepter for some survivability/lane sustaining, Phantom Dancer, Black Cleaver/Bloodrazor (which one goes first depends on conditions), same with Banshee's veil/Thornmail and as a last item, usually, if game is long, Infinity Edge.

Using ARP marks, AS seals, MR glyphs and MS/AS quints, depends how i feel.

What do you guys think?


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adminpwnsu

Member

04-06-2011

Well, while some of your points might be right, i can still disagree. Sheen alone sucks, but you can buy it if you rush trinity force.Have you tried out both builds?
TF just works better for me.


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ShakeNBakeUK

Senior Member

04-06-2011

I lost 2 games recently as Vayne where I outfarmed the enemy team by a mile and rushed Trinity, but failed to carry the game.

She is a ranged AD auto-attacking carry champion.
She needs all 3 of the B.F. Sword items ideally.

Sheen / Triforce is very good early game, and very good for poke damage, but when you are continually attacking someone they fall way under par.

My new build is Doran's Blade -> Boots 1 -> B.F. Sword -> Zerker shoes -> IE -> Vamp Scepter -> moar dps (the new tenacity item may be useful vs teams with cc after picking up IE)

If you fail to farm up the IE, get Black Cleaver 1st instead, it is quite a lot cheaper and still nice stats for Vayne.
Phantom Dancer is also nice, it provides more move speed than Trinity as you said, however you need to pick up your first big item before considering getting a Zeal -> Phantom Dancer.

IE plus 21 offensive masteries on a ranged carry that scales with AD and is very mobile is just too much dmg to pass up on.

Triforce is probably still a viable choice on her, and once you pick up the Sheen you can last hit every single minion in the lane with Q with no problems. I just find it is very hard to carry a game with Triforce on her.

Same as Bloodrazor, probably still a viable choice, but IE just sick synergy with offensive masteries at the moment.


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Endless Zero

Senior Member

04-06-2011

I've tried both builds but I must say I adore TF. Getting a Sheen early on pretty much decides how my earlygame will go - time your tumble with silver bolts proc, watch as your enemies' HP dissapears! Tumble and sheen stack together for delicious burst that people often underestimate. I find it easier to get kills and carry with a triforce than alternative builds, personally. Triforce'ing requires you to time your tumbles and Condemns for maximum effect, and I see too many Vaynes that never tumble or just spam it at random, so maybe it just comes down to playstyle.

I usually have a Triforce, Zerk boots, Bloodrazor and Bloodthirster as my core items.

Other Vaynes tend to laugh at me and call me a noob when they see me with a sheen as my second item. They don't laugh for very long.


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OdensFalcon

Member

04-06-2011

The thing is, Sheen and Triforce are pretty strong early on, but they tend to loose that edge as you move further into the lategame, where Phantom Dancer + Infinity Edge really start to kick in. Let's say you have 100 base dmg which with TF results in 250 damage with TF then you have to wait for tumble to get of CD, which is approx 2 seconds, in which you *can* condemn an enemy, with luck against wall, which will result in some nice damage.

However, imagine PD with IE, i know it is expensive, but Vayne overall is expensive champion. With PD and IE you get 55% crit alone from these two items, which basically means at least every second hit should be crit. If you can get to 2.0 AS, not hard with PD, you, theoretically, crit once per second. Let's say, you can do about 100 dmg to an enemy (in fact it is a lot more, just to compare it to TF). That means each second you are about to do 100 + 250 damage WITHOUT tumble, and this damage scales into lategame much better than from TF, as TF counts only base AD, while PD+IE use total AD, later on resulting in approx 700-1000 crits every second, + 350-500 non-crit damage, well, if you are lucky you can score two 1k crits each second, resulting, with tumble and silver bolts, in total mayhem.


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the only spahen

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Recruiter

13-06-2011

sheen/TF is soooooo good when u want to harast whit tumbel


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Zark Rian

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Member

13-06-2011

only me who play Vayne with full AS runepage?
38% AS from the runepage, zerk boots, PD, BC or MR. Usually you dont need any more AS items and can get a nice frozen mallet for survivability and still get IE and a BT, it'll kick you over 2.0 AS and if you really feel like you need more you can just get the agil elixer, should get you around 2.2-2.3 AS somewhere.
However most games dont last that long, but the early game with zerber boots and seal alone put you around 1.5 AS which is enough to kill most squishies early if you work on maxing out silver bolts first instead for going with tumble.

And yeah I know as a pure AD champ she might technicly have more use for armor pen runes and stuff, but as I see it when you have enough AS and can stack AD items instead the extra armor pen you would have gotten from the runes mean little when it's the silver bolts that is the "main source" of dmg.
Might just be me who's crazy though, but it seem to work for me atleast.

As for the TF question, I prefer other more "pure" AD items for Vayne, if you're really desperate for mana the golem will die when you sneeze on it anyway and that should about cover your mana issues.


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Silferas

Junior Member

15-06-2011

The reason people consider Vayne superior to most other AD ranged carries is, that she possesses both significant sustained damage AND burst. This is only and only because of the sheen + tumble (and in ideal case silver bolt stacking) synergize that makes the enemy health bar (that is already half gone) completely disappear. Therefore I feel that building Vayne while rushing only AS items or AD items and ingnoring (at least) Sheen is a big mistake, and the role that Vayne fills on team this way would be performed better by some other champions (in regards to just plain auto-attacking and occasional skill usage Ashe is superior in utility, Caitlyn in range and I find her passive doing better dmg than Vayne's silver bolts early in the game where it matters most, Miss Fortune is also popular lately).

Verdict: I personally don't think that Vayne played without Sheen/TF is as worthwhile as a one played with it, because she's clearly missing out on what she excells in.


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Kkaluro

Senior Member

15-06-2011

Talk about confusion, everytime I see "TF" in the OP, I think of twisted fate.
Can we refrain from using double abbreviations?! It's very confusing.

Is it that hard to type Trinity (Force), especially in a forum post!? Dang. Put it on your clipboard if you're really that lazy.


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xKaleith

Junior Member

15-06-2011

i think, considering the above points, we can say get sheen for earlygame burst, then the BFsword items for sustained? triforce is too much of a gold waste imo, make phantom dancer of the zeal.


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