Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a tonne of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out Boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

GO TO BOARDS


Tweaking Rengar.

1
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Xa3k

Senior Member

02-18-2015

Those of us who play Rengar believe he is still subpar and could use a buff. But like so many others, I also fear that if he get's a simple buff he will in turn be nerfed to a worse spot, so I propose you do so by tweaking him in a different manner, one that re-adjusts his weaknesses and his power.

I would do this by adjusting a few things, but the main changes would be altering the way his ferocity works, they are as follows:


Quote:
The simplest form - Rengar now gains an additional point of ferocity for every subsequent ability that strikes an enemy champion or large jungle monster within a brief time period.

How it would work: If Rengar successfully lands an ability on an enemy champion or Large monster they will become debuffed for 3 seconds, this is called being "Hunted" - If Rengar successfully lands another ability in that time period he will now gain 2 ferocity, this will chain until either the debuff times out or the enemy is struck by an empowered ability, if this happens the debuff is removed.

In it's simple form:
Rengar lands his Q, he now has 1 ferocity
Rengar lands his W, He now has 3 ferocity
Rengar lands his E, he now has 5 ferocity
Rengar uses an empowered ability, he now has 0 ferocity and the debuff is removed.
Rengar must now wait for his abilities to cooldown enough before he can make use of this chaining again.

This new mechanic will be disabled when his ultimate is used and will not be re-activated until both portions are complete.

This would buff him into the perfect position, and give him back his former prowess, boosting his strength in lane, jungle and team fights; if used correctly - without changing; and making his ability to ambush targets with his ultimate overpowered.

Here are a few key notes:
  • Rengar can only gain the maximum 5 ferocity if he lands all three abilities on one target.
  • This will ONLY changes his gameplay if he has between 0 and 2 ferocity. Since if he has 3 or 4 he will still need to use the same amount of abilities as he currently does to reach his empowered state.
  • This shifts his power and his weaknesses in lane, once level 3 he will be a menace again if he is given a chance, his counterplay has been altered so it is similar to other champions, he can still be taken advantage of if he makes a mistake, though it now involves split second decisions and well thought out tactics, for example: If you notices Rengar used an ability to last hit with low ferocity, make sure to capitalize on that because you know he won't be able to achieve full ferocity by chaining his abilities on you in time. Or, try to bait his E, forcing him to miss it, you know he won't be able to reach full ferocity and can capitalize on that again.
  • Gives a well needed improvement to all aspects of his jungling.
  • Will not effect his play style when his ultimate is being used.

There will be more but I'll leave them out



Quote:
W - Battle Roar
Jungle monsters are now stunned for 2 seconds.

This will improve his survivability in the jungle without affecting anything else.



Quote:
R - Thrill of the Hunt

Thrill of the hunt now has two components: One is activated by self casting, the other is activated by targeting an enemy champion - like Lissandra's ultimate; Details of each use are as follows:

If Rengar uses this ability on himself it will have exactly the same effects it has currently.

If however Rengar targets an enemy champion and uses it, instead of attempting to enter stealth he will immediately leap to his target and gain skip to the second portion of his ultimate; gaining bonus movement speed and generating 5 FEROCITY over the next 5 seconds.


And that is everything, I hope you guys like the ideas, let me know what you think!

(Added)

Also I believe that these would be a similiar tweak to the one of Renekton that you are currently working on. Since he will now be able to use 3 abilities and gain over 50 of his pool.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Xa3k

Senior Member

02-19-2015

Bump


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Zetzun

Member

02-19-2015

That would be really OP, rengar is not that bad atm, he is just ****ed up early in the new jungle like a lot of champs but he is fine damage wise.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Stixxeh

Member

02-19-2015

I'm semi maining Rengar again at the moment and while I'm having success, it feels like I'm working my ass off both to survive the early jungle and to do early/mid damage- Compared to the other obvious junglers right now like Lee/Vi/J4 Rengar is sub-par, it's just a simple fact. His clear is bad, his damage is bad, his aggressive and defensive scaling is non-existent and his survivability is laughable

He doesn't need another kit rework, his numbers just need a slight tweak here and there. Rengar has the classic problem of his kit has the potential to be amazing- so a little nudge in one direction or the other and he's either OP as hell or he's useless.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Aoracna

Member

02-20-2015

I like those changes, I also think that buffing him again just will get him to be op again, he is too unbalanced. Compare his strength when he has ult aginst when not, or when he has full ferocity against not full. It's true that a champion needs strengths and weaknesses but they have to be balanced, and they are not imo.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Xa3k

Senior Member

02-20-2015

Quote:
Zetzun:
That would be really OP, rengar is not that bad atm, he is just ****ed up early in the new jungle like a lot of champs but he is fine damage wise.


I don't believe they would. Because it wouldn't adjust his damage at all. It would only buff him where he is pointlessly weak. Because any other champion has their damage set across 3 abilities. Rengars damage is set across 4, so each need to be weaker. Also the mechanic would only be noticeable a fraction of the time.

All I have done is allow him to attain his power spike easier and remove the "Oh look rengar has no ferocity so I can do what i want now"

And also give him something else to do apart from "Okay I better get 5 ferocity before i gank or even think of entering a teamfight or using my ultimate"

The general idea is to give him more usability and more choices. Do i want to use my ultimate now to gap close and put myself in a bad position? Or do I save it to retreat if I get into a bad spot.

All this would do is buff him when he has low ferocity and cause him to think more, whilst simultaniously causing enemies to think more. Instead of just seeing he has no ferocity and capitalizing on it, they might bait his E so he misses it, causing him to be unable to reach full ferocity and then strike.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Xa3k

Senior Member

02-20-2015

Quote:
Aoracna:
I like those changes, I also think that buffing him again just will get him to be op again, he is too unbalanced. Compare his strength when he has ult aginst when not, or when he has full ferocity against not full. It's true that a champion needs strengths and weaknesses but they have to be balanced, and they are not imo.


I don't want him to be op though, that's why I thought of these. The idea is to drastically shrink his weaknesses so they are comparible to other junglers and top laners, because currently he is far too easy to exploit, and that's even if you don't really know how to play Rengar. If you do know him you will never lose.

But like I said I agree with that point, he relies on having full ferocity or his ultimate to be able to do anything at all. Every other champion in the game does not!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Xa3k

Senior Member

02-20-2015

Quote:
Stixxeh:
I'm semi maining Rengar again at the moment and while I'm having success, it feels like I'm working my ass off both to survive the early jungle and to do early/mid damage- Compared to the other obvious junglers right now like Lee/Vi/J4 Rengar is sub-par, it's just a simple fact. His clear is bad, his damage is bad, his aggressive and defensive scaling is non-existent and his survivability is laughable

He doesn't need another kit rework, his numbers just need a slight tweak here and there. Rengar has the classic problem of his kit has the potential to be amazing- so a little nudge in one direction or the other and he's either OP as hell or he's useless.


I have mained him since he was Released almost, seen all the changes and so on. This is why I DON'T want his numbers changed at all. I would prefer a tweak like the above, one which is barely noticeable and only changes the way people have to think!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Stixxeh

Member

02-21-2015

Quote:
Xa3k:
I have mained him since he was Released almost, seen all the changes and so on. This is why I DON'T want his numbers changed at all. I would prefer a tweak like the above, one which is barely noticeable and only changes the way people have to think!



Sorry mate but just no.. You can't call it a 'tweak' when you're proposing to change the majority of his kit, add skills and reworking the entire ferocity mechanic.. That's a rework, not a tweak.

I'm also completely against your R rework suggestion- You say you don't want to make him OP.. but then you want to give him a skill to insta-flash onto an enemy? Half the skill (and fun!) of playing Rengar right now is picking the right moment and executing a great leap. Yes the warning system is annoying but it also adds much needed counterplay. Also the idea of blinking onto a target and then generating ferocity over five seconds.. I don't know about you but in my experience late-game if you can't 100-0 the enemy ADC or AP in 1-2 seconds you're dead. Five seconds might as well be five-hundred.

I'm all for giving Rengar some much needed love, his win-rate alone right now is justification enough but your kit rework is not the way to go.

Ps. Please don't pull the 'I have mained him' card on me- You didn't touch him season 3, played him 4 times season 4 and this season so far you've had a single game.. I did main him season 3/4 and I'm still maining him this season with roughly 100 games played already- I'm not counting normals for obvious reasons but if we added those I'm sure I'd be well into the high hundreds by now. I appreciate that you like the champ and want him more viable, that's a good thing- but please stop acting like you're the be all and end all of Rengar players, your limited experience completely contradicts that.


1