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DEBATE on "offensive language"

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Warbackxoxo

Senior Member

02-12-2015

Yup the RR thing is just ridicoulus, they claim it's for stress reasons..


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Harry Vessla

Junior Member

02-12-2015

Mikethebaron (Personally I like freedom of speech more than people not being to say what they like to me. )

Well obvious are ppl having there right to Speech, still there are consequences if you say things ore do things that hurt ore are by law an harassment, an Example of that is what you Mikethebaron have agree 2 and that all have agree about is the License agreement there you can read about what is and not before you accept. (the therms of use the right to play lol)

This is an example of an lobby chat there ppl say what they want, and i choose my free selection of report.

well ppl harassing in lobby and leave so u cant actually report em fore an un legal harass.
skiiiL: erziarc after the game
Erziarc: o god this idiot again i sure not go again azir after lost so heav y idiot
maxiclopol: np kata and fizz
skiiiL: stfu
Erziarc: i go mid malzahar hf gl all dont listen toi german skiiill idiots
skiiiL: i sa
skiiiL: y
skiiiL: to you
Gh0st777: from?
skiiiL: you must be fat
skiiiL: and
skiiiL: your mother fat
skiiiL: and i hope you die in bronze
Harry Vessla: i copy text fore report
skiiiL: idot
skiiiL: fack you

xin November 21, 2014 04:08
Hello Summoner,
We will investigate your report and take any actions we feel are necessary. Please keep in mind; we cannot disclose any disciplinary actions that may be taken due to privacy reasons.
Even if you were unable to use the report feature, please continue to use our in-game reporting system whenever you can. Reports you make provide us with valuable tracking information and help to escalate players to our attention for investigation. Each report brings violators of the Summoner's Code one step closer to restricted chat or suspension by our investigative audits.
Thank you for your patience and for taking time out of your day to send us this report. It is our goal to continue working towards making experiences on the Fields of Justice fair and fun for all Summoners!
Please let me know if you have any additional feedback or concerns.
Xin
Riot Player Support


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GangrelCat

Senior Member

02-13-2015

Quote:
Warbackxoxo:
Hate speech and insulting is quite define and easy to point out, that's a common denominator, and i won't explain to you things of common sense.


Same goes for toxicity.

Quote:
Warbackxoxo:
Toxic, offensive language, flaming i don't really care what you call what honestly is what it is, negative criticism or statement of facts should not be included in that.


When they are toxic, they should be included.

Quote:
Warbackxoxo:
If you want to rule out everything that contributes to a loss in the verbal form, like negative criticism or statement of facts do, then by all means remove the chat, because it will never ever happen.


No, just punishing what is toxic is enough. As more and more systems get introduced there will be less and less toxicity. It will never go away completely, but I think that for the most part it will.

Quote:
Warbackxoxo:
People are not apatic, noone is going to come into this game, and not be judgmental or critising other people, and no it's not going to be all good stuff.


True, but if they go too far, they’ll get punished.

Quote:
Warbackxoxo:
I mean it's surreal to me, how you people view the real world, in what instance of reality, do you see people not being blamed or critisiced or verbally atacked for theire ****-ups?

You can tone it down in a video-game sure, but to ban people who just are critical of you? It's just ego protection and you'll never, ever aknowledge a better understanding of the game, if there isn't people telling you, you're bad at it.


That is quite funny, I’m thinking the same thing of you. Do you see people not get punished when they go too far?

Whenever I see your posts I can't help but think of what Obi-Wan said: "Only Sith deal in absolutes."
People don’t get punished for being critical, they get punished for being a jerk about it.
What do people learn from stating their bad? How do they become better due to that statement? How will they suddenly know what to do? How will it help win the game? So what’s the point of that statement other than self-gratification?

-----------------------------------------------------
You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.
Mahatma Gandhi

Je suis Charlie


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Frenchie2010

Senior Member

02-13-2015

You dont get punished for constructive critisism, you get punished for being a **** about the mistakes of your teammates in a desructive and demoralizing way.

Basically 90% of the community can easily spot the difference and act accordingly.

I admit, there are some people who cry as soon as you say something to them, but they dont matter, they are too few.

And Im willing to admit that the system is not perfect. There may be a few cases with wrong punishments. That should be looked into ofc.

But for the rest: This is a gaming community, and if you act like a jerk, you get thrown out. Just common sense, just everyday life. End. Of. Story.


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Hagglinz BS

Junior Member

02-13-2015

Quote:
GangrelCat:
People don’t get punished for being critical, they get punished for being a jerk about it.
What do people learn from stating their bad? How do they become better due to that statement? How will they suddenly know what to do? How will it help win the game? So what’s the point of that statement other than self-gratification


People DO get punished for being critical. Because as so many other threads have stated, It's the person reading the comment who choose to take it in a negative way or not. And who is the judge on crossing the line or not? The Tribunal? they only see the reports being filed, they dont know the accuracy of those reports.

People take these things SO differently, and thats why it is absurd to take away ranked games from a "verbal harrasment charge"

"PEOPLE WHO COMMUNICATE WIN 31% MORE GAMES" Riot quote!


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Perpetuum Pasta

Member

02-13-2015

Someone quoted:
"Players who communicate win 33% more games" (1)

But take into account too that:
"People who harass their teammates win 23% less games"
"People who are friendly win about 27% more games"
(2)

Freedom of speech means you can say what you think, but the consecuences of your expressed thoughts are still there. Most people out there don't understand the most basic rule of common sense:

“Don't do unto others what you don't want others to do unto you.”

Stick to this, and you will easily accomplish (1) and (2) while enjoying your freedom of speech, without chat/ranked restrictions.


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Warbackxoxo

Senior Member

02-13-2015

Quote:
GangrelCat:
Same goes for toxicity.


Define toxicity then, how is it diferent then negative criticism.

Quote:
GangrelCat:
When they are toxic, they should be included.


Give me an example of a negative criticism that isn't toxic then.

Quote:
GangrelCat:
No, just punishing what is toxic is enough. As more and more systems get introduced there will be less and less toxicity. It will never go away completely, but I think that for the most part it will.


Haha, so delusional. You actually think Riot can suceed in something that's completly within human nature. One would think any modern society would have done that by now then.

Quote:
GangrelCat:
True, but if they go too far, they’ll get punished.


What a vague thing to say. Yet can't we discuss negative criticism?

Quote:
GangrelCat:
That is quite funny, I’m thinking the same thing of you. Do you see people not get punished when they go too far?


How? How can you possibly think that? We're talking about language and punishment here, one of the most overlooked, indiferent facets of the Law.

There's literally 0 coverague, importance or ****s given to this side of society. Most people are nice to each other, but when they're not, there's almost no importance given.

If a random homeless man starts yelling at you and calling you names, do you break down and start crying? DO ask for policing language? Noone of this things happen in the real world to any real extent.

Quote:
GangrelCat:
Whenever I see your posts I can't help but think of what Obi-Wan said: "Only Sith deal in absolutes."
People don’t get punished for being critical, they get punished for being a jerk about it.
What do people learn from stating their bad? How do they become better due to that statement? How will they suddenly know what to do? How will it help win the game? So what’s the point of that statement other than self-gratification?


Hmm how about the truth? It's not always nice. You're strawmaning it, to make it sound i want to call people bad when i never said that, at least not directly.

But i've been told things that were negative that made better myself as a player. I'm not petty enough to feel insulted for things people say about me, when it's true.

Also if anyone is dealing with absolutes it's you, you give no leeway to what is called "being a jerk", i'd wouldn't mind looking at context and just not giving people restrictions because they're being whinny.

I can't say the same for you.


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Warbackxoxo

Senior Member

02-13-2015

Quote:
Frenchie2010:
You dont get punished for constructive critisism, you get punished for being a **** about the mistakes of your teammates in a desructive and demoralizing way.

Basically 90% of the community can easily spot the difference and act accordingly.

I admit, there are some people who cry as soon as you say something to them, but they dont matter, they are too few.

And Im willing to admit that the system is not perfect. There may be a few cases with wrong punishments. That should be looked into ofc.

But for the rest: This is a gaming community, and if you act like a jerk, you get thrown out. Just common sense, just everyday life. End. Of. Story.


Yes but there's a diference between what's insulting and what's just ego-damaging. All this positivity does is promote the ideology of retarded things like the "never surrender " mentality, and other things that basically make people who play decently be stuck in 40 minute losses.

And i'd actually wouldn't mind all of that, but the biggest hypocrisy is that, when i ask for the most common and most harmless thing, which is apologizing, people in this forum look at me, like i've asked for the Holly Grail.

" While apoligising is positive, it shouldn't be required"
"Aplogising shouldn't be demanded"

Is the level of response i get, that's why, i know it's an ego issue that people are discussing, not being nice.
Being nice doesn't just mean saying you're going to win with emoticons, or not being mean to people, the most positive thing you can do is actually admit to your mistakes and move on.


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Warbackxoxo

Senior Member

02-13-2015

Quote:
Perpetuum Pasta:
Someone quoted:
"Players who communicate win 33% more games" (1)

But take into account too that:
"People who harass their teammates win 23% less games"
"People who are friendly win about 27% more games"
(2)

Freedom of speech means you can say what you think, but the consecuences of your expressed thoughts are still there. Most people out there don't understand the most basic rule of common sense:

“Don't do unto others what you don't want others to do unto you.”

Stick to this, and you will easily accomplish (1) and (2) while enjoying your freedom of speech, without chat/ranked restrictions.


Freedom of speech is irrelevant of winning. We're not discussing the prospectives of winning. Which by enlarge positive speech or negative speech have litle decisive effect.


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Lady Lothiriel

Senior Member

02-13-2015

Quote:
You actually think Riot can suceed in something that's completly within human nature.


I am really getting tired of being told repeatedly, that being a **** is completely within human nature. IT IS NOT.

Most people are by nature friendly to one another. Most people acknowledge that you have to treat others the way you want to be treated yourself.

There are norms and rules for polite and friendly behaviour, there is nothing "vague" about what constitutes friendliness.
Your "negative criticism" is by far and wide outside of everything that is considered nice and kind. We do not even NEED to discuss specifics here, there are socially accepted rules about such things that go back several centuries.

For those being raised in unfortunate circumstances, who just cannot acknowledge those basic truths I am feeling truly sorry, but that doesn't change the facts.

Quote:
DO ask for policing language? Noone of this things happen in the real world to any real extent.


So ENIRELY wrong. In the real world there are:

- rules regarding politeness that specifically incorporate language
- rules about sportsmanship
- a whole buckload of rules and laws concerning harassment (sexual and otherwise) at the workplace, that are specifically (amongst other things) targeting language
- rules and guidelines regarding bullying at school, again specifically targeting language
- laws regarding slander
- laws regarding insulting police officers and other official persons
- specific rules and guidelines in companies and schools about interaction, again incorporating language rules
- ...

There is almost no place in the real world where you can go and randomly insult or just "negatively criticise" people without any negative backlash.