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Final thoughts on the chat restriction system

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Shiwah

Senior Member

01-18-2015

Quote:
JagPrime:
Since you end up in an endless loop of punishment you cannot get out, even remaining silent, basically makes sure you cannot enjoy the game anymore.

In the Player Behaviour section there's at least one player who claims he got out of the CR cycle on 2 accounts.


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KiwiGeneral

Senior Member

01-18-2015

Quote:
That is the point. No guarantee. Since you end up in an endless loop of punishment you cannot get out, even remaining silent, basically makes sure you cannot enjoy the game anymore.

You can get out, if you want to get out fast, be nice and positive else simply be quite and it will take some time.
But you ahve to realize that Riot woN't unrestrict you immediately, if you were very toxic in the past.
An example: Be toxic for 1000 games, you won't get unrestricted for being silent in 5 games.

Quote:
Let's just stop being hypocritical, just ban people and not try making as if we try to improve things.
So you can simply sit out your punishment and play on a smurf.
Yeah, as I said, you simply want a system to favor toxic players.

Quote:
Well, I'v been at university, I worked there even. I'v seen plenty of mistakes from many people, as in any other place . Doesn't mean people that caused it were bad or stupid, but sometimes, ideas can be proven to be wrong. What sometimes makes them smarter than average is that they can recognize them and try to fix them. Research is a very iterative process. Negating issues and sticking to a wrong hypothesis hardly improves anything.

So, you want to tell me that several universities and Riot employees have been making mistakes all the time.
Yeah, sure, tin foil helm argument.

Quote:
Well if it is how you see it, let's just stop it. Let's just jump to the conclusion you wanna hear that will preserve/boost your ego, while not really lowering mine: You're good, I'm evil. I prefer not to shatter your black & white world of certainties. I don't have to do it: life has a way to teach that to everyone.

You do realize I answered to your question how I would qualify this statement:
Quote:
Don't assume I'm a troll, looking at my stats, you will see that. I respect different opinions

The person saying this, would be arguing, prolly, with a flamer. Nothing more. It's nothing I'd punish, but still, you'd be arguing with one, not a smart move.
It could be a flamer, but I'm not entirely sure, that's why I said "prolly".

I mean, seriously, do you forget what you write? Or do you desperately try to let me look like the bad guy, because you have no arguments left?


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JagPrime

Member

01-18-2015

Quote:
In the Player Behaviour section there's at least one player who claims he got out of the CR cycle on 2 accounts.

Statistics on 2 people. Yeah, sounds legit. We can safely infer from that, that 5% of 64 millions of players will get out of it. Strange that when someone says he has been punished unfairly (again not me. Me it was fair that I got punishment) that is not sample enough, it does not even exist as system=perfection. No reason to raise a dubious eyebrow about the system...

Quote:
Or do you desperately try to let me look like the bad guy, because you have no arguments left?

You're not a bad guy, but talking with you and Shiwah, I experience the same chill that I often experience in game, where some people actually do tend to pile on someone who is unhappy and/or made a mistake even if he admits it... I think you,try to make me angry so that you could prove: flamers are flamers and different from us, we are the good, the system workd: I'm safe. Since you think you are the reference on this: "Is it not negative attitude that?"

And I'm not short of arguments. What I lack is an audience that could listen to them and could answer them without resorting to authority arguments. No number of arguments I have would win over people that only have authority arguments.

You earlier said that maybe making surrendering possible earlier would be something to maybe consider. That is your opinion (finally). It is not description you read about the system. So suggestions for improvements are not totally out of question. So even you could recognize there is a point of discussing a system instead of just accepting as if it were perfect. Every year Riot changes the game. So means it is not perfect right from the start. I trust you do have an opinion on the gameplay/balance issues.

Quote:
So, you want to tell me that several universities and Riot employees have been making mistakes all the time.

Not all the time, not on all accounts, but definitely I do question the infallability of the system. You know, every year some people die because they took medicine crafted by pharmaceutic industries and given by doctors who, afaik were thaught in universities. Once in university, never wrong again?

Riot & universities. You have to say it while listening to Wagner music or something, something big in any case. So basically, they can solve all psychological, technical and sociological issues in one clever shot? Should they not be busy with something more important than a game ? ;-)

Could they predict criminal behavior ? Like in Minority Report ?

My new god has arrived ! All praise Rito and universities ! ;-) I was in the dark, I finally saw the light! Please Rito and Universities, free me of all of my sins, cause I have cursed someone in a game !... Please give me the appropriate punishment ! Take my arm or my tongue! So I can save my soul from Noxia ! ;-)

Shiwah and KiwiGeneral are their holy prophets. Skins on them and their families! ;-) THEY IZ THE LAW, THEY READ IN THE WORDS AND MIND OF RITO AND UNIVERSITIES ITSELVES! THEY SPEAKZ IN THEIR HOLY NAMES.

Seriously guys, I'm sorry but this is ridiculous and laughable (I hope you still have a sense of humour and that I will not be burnt for blasphemy) ;-). I'm not making you lose a ranked game here, chill and laugh a bit. You're all too serious and all too severe.

You know what guys, I propose this. A scientific experiment
I have 52CR and 25RR left. I will get rid of them, while as I do now: Muting all and not typing anything.
Then, I will play 35 ranked games (same amount as RR), still muting all and not typing anything.
My hypothesis is I will get punished again.
Whatever the result, I will come back in this very thread to share the results. And I'll admit, if I'm not that the system is not as flawed as I think it is.

Deal guys?


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KiwiGeneral

Senior Member

01-18-2015

Quote:
You're not a bad guy, but talking with you and Shiwah, I experience the same chill that I often experience in game, where some people actually do tend to pile on someone who is unhappy and/or made a mistake even if he admits it... I think you,try to make me angry so that you could prove: flamers are flamers and different from us, we are the good, the system workd: I'm safe. Since you think you are the reference on this: "Is it not negative attitude that?"

And I'm not short of arguments. What I lack is an audience that could listen to them and could answer them without resorting to authority arguments. No number of arguments I have would win over people that only have authority arguments.

You earlier said that maybe making surrendering possible earlier would be something to maybe consider. That is your opinion (finally). It is not description you read about the system. So suggestions for improvements are not totally out of question. So even you could recognize there is a point of discussing a system instead of just accepting as if it were perfect. Every year Riot changes the game. So means it is not perfect right from the start. I trust you do have an opinion on the gameplay/balance issues.

Just that I don't simply believe Riot, I base my opinion on my observations and these thousands of reform cards I've seen.

Quote:
Not all the time, not on all accounts, but definitely I do question the infallability of the system. You know, every year some people die because they took medicine crafted by pharmaceutic industries and given by doctors who, afaik were thaught in universities. Once in university, never wrong again?

Riot & universities. You have to say it while listening to Wagner music or something, something big in any case. So basically, they can solve all psychological, technical and sociological issues in one clever shot? Should they not be busy with something more important than a game ? ;-)

Of course no system is perfect, and no one here denies that.
However someone getting unfairly punished doesn't mean that the system is broken or similar.
But you said your "improvements" would lead to no innocent player getting punished.
Quote:
Can you quote me on that? because I can't see where. I don't plead for flame or flamers. I plead for a system with:
- More transparency
- Who makes impossible for innocents to get caught.
- Fair punishments
- Will still make room to voice an opinion in-game.


So, tell me, are you perfect now?

Quote:
You know what guys, I propose this. A scientific experiment
I have 52CR and 25RR left. I will get rid of them, while as I do now: Muting all and not typing anything.
Then, I will play 35 ranked games (same amount as RR), still muting all and not typing anything.
My hypothesis is I will get punished again.

1. This is no scientific experiment.
2. As I said, being silent won't get you unrestricted quickly. So your experiment is useless.

Quote:
Whatever the result, I will come back in this very thread to share the results.

In your op you already stated that the op was your final contribution to this forum.
Care to explain why you lie?

Quote:
And I'll admit, if I'm not that the system is not as flawed as I think it is.

What?


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JagPrime

Member

01-18-2015

Well, I mute you :-) I'll get back with the results :-)


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Shiwah

Senior Member

01-18-2015

Quote:
JagPrime:
Statistics on 2 people. Yeah, sounds legit.

I'm not making statistics.

You say that no one gets out of CR cycle (which means that 100% of restricted people remain restricted forever, according to you). I said otherwise, since you can also talk with that same user in Player Behaviour.

There are also other cases, but can't remember them atm.


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GoblinGranate

Junior Member

01-18-2015

@JagPrime

Though I don't agree with you at some little details of your suggestions, just wanted to show you my full support. Add me whenever.

Said this, let me point out something you guys sais: at some point, one of you said "Try ask them to stop flaming". Do you realize that it still points out the fact that there is a flame and therefore you are fanning it? If you just say "muted", you are doing so aswell, but you are also cutting off (for better or worse) the chatting with that player. It has no sense to keep flaming if your target is not receiving it. Asking not to flame keeps the channel up (again, for better or worse). So the only difference you can get form this two methods is that one ends earlier. Should I be reported for negative if I just mute someone who is flaming me?

#ChatPickRoom
+(insert flame here)

-Ok, muted
+Report: Negative Attitude, for not showing any interest in comunication with that player.

-Please, stop flaming
+Report: Negative Attitude, for fanning the flame.

-Ok, I will just mute everybody from 0:00 in order to prevent any flame
+Report: Refuse to comunicate with team.

-I don't agree what you say, I will play my way, not yours
+Report: Intentional Loss/Help Enemy Team

...
Deny me this: if you get flamed, you will likely get reported aswell. Winning the game won't save you from it.


Btw, that FunFact#666, I like it. I agree it aswell.


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JagPrime

Member

01-19-2015

@GoblinGranate: I agree, you got my point. In some way, any word you type can be interpreted by someone as flame.

If I say 'nice' while one of my teammate does a double, while at the same moment my jungler gets killed by the wolves, I will maybe be reported by the jungler who thought I was being sarcastic, failing to see I was describing another situation. It happened to me to have to calm down the jungler after that(I had to say: not you, nice double)

Being unskilled is feeding for some people, saying muted.

Which led me to the conclusion: mute all, don't type anything. You're not positive, but there is nothing the system can hold against you (lest you have a very bad game and still get a report).

But I'm sure that 'Rito & universities' (Ahahahahaha), finally crafted an AI that can parse millions of messages in many languages and perceive all subtleties. I have to be honest, I live in fear now, cause this thing must be so clever that it will pass the Turing test, become self-conscious and destroy humanity. Somebody, please do something ;-)

Like in this scenario:
JagPrime: "The weather is ****"
(... somewhat later...)
Jagprime: @Flamer: Could you please SS?
Flamer: -BIP-, you -BIP- just -BIP- ! ward ! -BIP- support.
Jagprime: Dude...
Flamer: report.

I get a report (maybe more if flamer is premade although there i read the system would see that, and I believe that)and I used a bad word for describing the weather. I'm totally convinced that the system will be able to tell the difference.

I NEVER got ANY sanction while the tribunal with actual people was running.

I'm still going through my sanction, something like 42CR + 21 RR...


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Shiwah

Senior Member

01-19-2015

You know... it filters off swearing when it's not directed at people.


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KiwiGeneral

Senior Member

01-20-2015

Quote:
I NEVER got ANY sanction while the tribunal with actual people was running.

Because the tribunal was slow as hell, it sometimes took months to finish a case.

Btw. you still don't understand the university point I made.


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