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Poking the bear with a stick

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Mondego

Senior Member

01-14-2015

Oh and if this sheds some light in my partiular case, I playing since early season 1, never got so much as a warning before this new system kicked in, and when it did I got restricted for 3 rows of 20 games because I said "muted" to verbally abusive people. My punishment wore out a long long time ago, my anger towards this company only grew since then though


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JagPrime

Member

01-14-2015

If 'muted' is already consider negative/flame, then I was really right when I said that ultimately, nobody will ever say a word.

For my part, from now on, when I start a game, it is /mute all.

Works so far. I don't think I lose much of the philosophy and love from the chat. And if I get chat restriction again (because I admit I got it and it was deserved), then it will definitely prove to me that the system is really not adequate.

And while I would agree that often the players are punished for a reason, I'm also amazed by the number of saints and zen masters that lurk on part of a forum dedicated to a topic that does not apply to them...


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Shiwah

Senior Member

01-14-2015

Quote:
Mondego:
Sigh, let me start by just saying, yeah, they didn't say it was 100 % bulletproof on THOSE EXACT WORDS, but they said pretty much said and what they said is the following: "Its 99,99% accurate and the only reason we don't claim it's 100% its because it'd be arrogant of us to say say something can't fail, scientifically speaking" - (and saying 99,99% accurate isn't arrogant at all it seems)

Wrong. They took a sample of 10.000 cases, analyzed them and every single one of them was a deserved punishment.
But since no human-built system is immune to errors, Lyte said the accuracy is 99%. Leaving a 1% of cases where the punishment was undeserved. And he even acknowledged it!

Quote:
Mondego:
Then, about the "muted" being toxic or not interpretation, well its not, it can't be

That's your personal opinion. Back when Tribunal was active, the majority of the players voted to punish such statements. This should give you a hint about what the community as a majority thinks about it.

Quote:
Mondego:
And to conclude, if you think they actually go through the reports with actual people well then, set aside their system doesn't work all that well with the premise

It's called "accuracy check". Every single automatic or semi-automatic system undergoes it.

Quote:
Mondego:
And my fact to you is math, do the math on a single day's worth of playing and you'll see just how right you are. Trust me, this is a 99,99 % accurate measure to assure you how wrong you are.

This... I don't see the point in such a convoluted sentence.


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Gorantharon

Senior Member

01-14-2015

Quote:
Mondego:

Oh and @Cobaltmotari, yes it was arrogant of me to say people are blind, not all people are blind, certainly not all of us, I was referring to you in particular. I won't reply you anymore as you're a dogmatic and immune to logic that contradicts what you heard first. Muted


So you punctuate your argument that muted is not toxic by using it as an emphasis for you whole paragraph of an insult thus proving it can be used as such?

Interesting.


Further, you can discuss if or if not muted should be punishable, but as long as Riot defines it as such the system here worked fine under it's given rules.

When the Tribunal returns we will probably see how the majority of users will interpret a case where muted is the only thing someone says, but right now the only reason why you insist on saying muted is your own hurt feelings, the long paragraphs about being treated like a criminal attest to that.

Just don't write it.

Muted, by the way, does have a retaliatory element that can lead to the flamer either trying other means of disrutpting the game to still hurt you or he might be trying to use his "success" on the the next target.

That's why simply ignoring and letting the flamer silently run out of steam is probably still the better method.
On a personal level I do find people who have to announce each and every mute to be surprisingly annoying, I won't report for it, though.


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JagPrime

Member

01-14-2015

Quote:
That's your personal opinion. Back when Tribunal was active, the majority of the players voted to punish such statements. This should give you a hint about what the community as a majority thinks about it.


You may be the majority, you still may be wrong...
It is not proven that large group of humans are smarter or the intelligence of a group is the sum of the individual intelligence. Actually it is quite the contrary.

And if it was so right, why did they feel a change was needed ?


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Shiwah

Senior Member

01-14-2015

Quote:
JagPrime:
You may be the majority, you still may be wrong...
It is not proven that large group of humans are smarter or the intelligence of a group is the sum of the individual intelligence. Actually it is quite the contrary.

Real life laws are made this way. Only a majority of voters can change them.

Quote:
JagPrime:
And if it was so right, why did they feel a change was needed ?

Riot didn't "change" anything. There was a serious bug with the Tribunal, which made the creation of cases so slow someone would take months before being punished.
So Riot took it down to fix the bug and, while working on it, adding new features (still unannounced). CR and RR systems are meant to take its place temporarily and then work side-to-side with the Tribunal, possibly by being Tribunal-issued punishments along with bans.


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JagPrime

Member

01-14-2015

Quote:
Real life laws are made this way. Only a majority of voters can change them.


Even if a majority of people involved in the tribunal condemned the 'muted' statement, they are the majority of the people reviewing tribunal cases... So it is not democratic at all. It is just the opinion of a small part of the whole LOL community. And among them, most likely people who are eager to judge and punish others, so also maybe not a representative part of the community as a whole.

And laws can be voted by a majority and still not be ethical or moral. Even less if there is not even a vote.


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Shiwah

Senior Member

01-14-2015

And here it comes, the ages old "people only press punish in Tribunal" argument!


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Mondego

Senior Member

01-14-2015

Once again, sigh, you guys need to apply the same logic you're applying with the word "muted" I pronounced to every other single word that comes out of your mouth. I guarantee you can scavenge hunt for negative reasons behind every single one and at the end of the day I wouldn't be the toxic one, you would, with your own twisted interpretation of reality to preserve what you hold to be the one truth.

I could have said "..." for all you care and it'd still be toxic to some of you guys. Well I raise you this, if I deserve 60 games chat restriction for saying "muted" what does a true toxic person get? Fries with that? Can you guys have an actual argument here?

I won't address the actual human check it part, anyone who has done the math to half a day worth of cases knows that simply isn't plausible. Oh and by all means, to the guy who said they admited to the 1% inacuraccy (which they absolutely didn't, do your research right), I'd love to see a single case in which they admitted to be wrong. I've seen people that didn't even talk, even people with attitude ribbons getting punished for the slightest of things/nothing at all, their system is based on report volume and if you can read between the lines you know it by now, it's far from perfect and it could work as a bandaid should we have people reviewing the ass where people said to be wrongfully punished, but right now we have a (lack of) support that does everything and anything but admitted their own errors while 'forcing' us to live with 'ours'.


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Shiwah

Senior Member

01-14-2015

The system is based on how many games you got validly reported in.

But if you think you know more than the guy who created it, be my guest.