Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a tonne of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out Boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

GO TO BOARDS


Heimerdinger rework on PBE today

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Adam445

Senior Member

10-11-2013

Quote:
Aapee:
So... His turrets won't work if he is not in the area?



without this he could place one in each lane and help them out at level 1


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Leyrann

Senior Member

10-11-2013

I'm not sure if this is intented (I think not), but even at level 1 Heimerdinger can place three turrets at the moment.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Adam445

Senior Member

10-11-2013

Turrets will go down in like 2-3 hits(from a champion) so it doesn't take much to get rid of them it , if you read the ability text there http://i.imgur.com/BklhFKz.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/BklhFKz.jpg) it takes 24 seconds to make a turret at level 1 which means if you take out the turrets quickly he wont always have 3 on the map and they all have to be close to each other because if you move out of their range they get silenced http://i.imgur.com/SDZ6brd.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/SDZ6brd.jpg) meaning they can't attack.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

bowlerman

Junior Member

10-11-2013

Quote:
Jokefish:
I think a large problem with Heimer for teamfights is that no enemy team will actually go fight you if you have set up your turrets nicely in the area you are about to fight at.

What I would have loved to see is that his ultimate would allow you to place 3 (maybe 4 with ult?) turrets at once (like Jinx places her grenades, in a row or triangle/square)and perhaps consume only one charge of his turret-stacks. If his ult would have a duration again instead of on-first-cast, you could quickly reposition ALL turrets during a team-fight making them WAY more useful(perhaps a bit OP).

I haven't been able to test him yet, so perhaps these changes aren't as needed as I think they are because of the changes to his other abilities. But still I would love to see an option to place all turrets at once instead of one by one

If you always use your turrets then you are probably playing him wrong. I think that it would be more useful to save a turret for a team-fight scenario, and then r q q to essetially have the three turrets you wanted (assuming that heimer's r q doesn't consume a turret kit) If the opposing team refuses to team-fight because of this then you can use your turrets to safely take dragon or even baron.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

bowlerman

Junior Member

10-11-2013

Quote:
Aerem:
I'm not sure if this is intented (I think not), but even at level 1 Heimerdinger can place three turrets at the moment.

It's intended. He can only have one turret kit, but can have three turrets at level one.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Sorlin87

Junior Member

10-11-2013

First! Thanks for the rework!!

W is splendid...too bad i can't test him.
I really like the idea on the na to give "lifesteal" or life each hit to the turrets.
I just wanted to share some ideas for the passive:

Simpler
- Passive: when no turret are alive (or active) the turret's kits regenerate at a faster rate,until one is ready? (fluff : because as a inventor he can "work out" what has gone bad in the previous turrets, and prepare for next events)
So that even if all turrets are destroyed at least he can always have something to do during cooldowns, and i don't think just 1 turret is a "big threat". The active part i'm not convinced because it can be exploited by walking away from a turret, but u still leave her undefended.

-Passive: When there aren't active turrets. he gain some resists or movement speed.
This could address the feeling when u have to run but don't want to leave your nest. Heimer don't escape fast, and usually by leaving turrets range he just meld leaving his dps further away. The problem i see in this solution is that heimer has other skills apart from turrets.

More complex and probabily "irreal" passive:

-When he walks over a turret the turret heals to max.
This could leave the sensation of "healing" but by making the donger leave safety. Could also lead to some extreme cases (don't know if good or not) where he sits on a turret...he is immoble but has a "invulnerable" source of damage, probabily just hilarious but not very effective...except maybe is some close duels,where he can stun melees.

-Turrets are more resilient (resistance up) the more heimer is near them. Can lead to a : destroy the turret if he is not near, kill him if he is near.


Ok, these are just IDEAS, so please don't flame. I can see they are not perfect, but maybe some "ideas" are can be used.

One last point, 20thCenturyFaux: why the shared cooldowns on his skills when ulti? I can guess i will feel bad using ultimate, and realizing i can't cast the one version i want because is on cooldown. Heck! I have 4 skills, or 3? Why having a skill with 2 cooldowns? I'm fine for tuning the ultimate down, so that if you combo W with RW you get rougly the same damage ( i can see some problem with the granade, maybe if u hit E and RE on the same person you stun less with the second skill).

Sorry but english is not my first language. And again thanks for the amazing work!!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

20thCenturyFaux

QA Analyst

10-11-2013

Quote:
Sorlin87:
One last point, 20thCenturyFaux: why the shared cooldowns on his skills when ulti? I can guess i will feel bad using ultimate, and realizing i can't cast the one version i want because is on cooldown. Heck! I have 4 skills, or 3? Why having a skill with 2 cooldowns? I'm fine for tuning the ultimate down, so that if you combo W with RW you get rougly the same damage ( i can see some problem with the granade, maybe if u hit E and RE on the same person you stun less with the second skill).

Sorry but english is not my first language. And again thanks for the amazing work!!


Awesome, glad you like it!

To answer your question, basically it's all about making each of Heimerdinger's choices a true ultimate. If I let it reset the cooldown, I would have to weaken the spells; this is also why it has a fairly beefy cooldown early on.

The obvious reason for that is just so that the spells feel super good to use, but there's a bunch of subtle stuff about it too. First, Heimer is all about foresight, planning, and invention. He's a careful planner who outwits you well before you realize how screwed you really are. Tying ult to ability cooldown reinforces that, while Q being 1s cooldown lets him have one guaranteed option. Second, it lets me avoid degenerate RW->W, E->RE type cases where Heimer just stacks a ton of one kind of effect, which further contributes to the power of the ult. Rengar runs into this constantly, actually--big Q was fine, but three big Qs was tricky.

I definitely understand the sad feels of really needing an RW and having W on cooldown, especially on the first game, but it's my hope that this route will make for a more satisfying tenth game, twentieth and beyond.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

HawkAce

Senior Member

10-11-2013

I love all of the work you've done with the PBE-Donger remake, the only issue I have with him is one I think he's always had.

He's this master of holding positions, you can turret up a bottle neck and ruin anyone that walks through, but when it comes to planting his turrets for long durations, I find that they get squashed very easily.

I would love it if they had some sort of resistance against AoE abilities (like pets in WoW) maybe his passive could offer them not only health regeneration; but also AoE damage reduction, so people have to make the choice of using a single target ability to wipe a single turret out at a time, or use an AoE to do a little bit of damage to all/a-few of them. (instead of "one bomb" or "static-shiv proc" and their gone)

I understand that it's down the the Donger to place them so that they can't all be taken out with one ability, but the freedom to place turrets for optimum output is squelched by the dreaded AoE spammers.

And the AoE-protection would disappear when Donger walks away from them (the 'switch off' mechanic), just a wee bit more help for the little man in a big lane. ><

Thanks for all the great work!

I would put more but I bet you're swamped.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

JestersRequiem

Junior Member

10-12-2013

I've always been a big time Heimer fan since I started playing and I have to say I'm one of those 'I prefer the old Dinger' people. Don't get me wrong I can see the potential in the new kit but there are a few things which if altered could make his kit a lot better. First up is can we either give Heimer more HP on his turrets late game or lessen the cooldown on them, because at 516 HP they've got even less HP than a standard Melee minion which means any decent minion wave clearing champ pretty much annihilates them. Also is it possible to take away the turret shut down once Heimer reaches rank 5 on his Q because by that point hopefully the laning phase should have ended and it would be nice for Heimer to gain the ability to put them around the map again for at least a small bit of late game map control\vision.

Moving on to the rockets, I prefer the old lock on ones as they were better wave clearers but I can understand switching it up to a shotgun effect because of the turret changes, though would it be possible to make a minion only take one or two rockets and have the others carry on over it's head to gain at least some of his wave clearing back from that.

On to the subject of his grenade. Love it. Honestly the slowness of the grenade was the only problem I had with old Dinger as opponents had to be mentally challenged to be hit by it. This new one is a work of art.

With his Ultimate I don't understand not getting instant cooldown for which ever one he choose. I feel that's the whole point of an Ultimate it shouldn't need to be controlled by other skill cooldowns as well as it's own. I know the burst from doing Rockets into rockets is huge but it kills one champion at best and the other skills you didn't choose could revert back to counting down their cooldowns and not offer instant resets for them.

Lastly (and the thing I want the most) I would LOVE a range increase on being able to put down the Ulti enhanced turret. As others in this thread have said during a team fight it's unlikely that people will go into your turrets and let's be honest here Heimer has so little health that having to set up during a team fight can be lethal to him. By increasing the range put down of the ulti turret so that he's effectively able to dump it right down in the middle of people he forces them to move and in most cases that'll either be towards his turrets or retreat backwards to their base. It would also open up a lot of opportunities for good positioning, something which I believe Heimer is all about.

Anyway thanks for listening and for the rework, I know I said I prefer the old Dinger but I do have hopes for upgraded new hotness Dinger :P, keep up the impressive and hard work ^_^.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Rinion

Senior Member

10-12-2013

That is a nice idea Jokefish,
imagine this, his ult would allow you to setup turrets in Rumble ult fashion, or a similar mechanic, where you can setup turrets at a distance and maybe in formation