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Aatrox is so close to being a "good" AA based adc

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Uncommon Dandy

Senior Member

05-27-2013

Disclamer: Keep in mind that people on the PBE are potatoes so it's hard to get an accurate reading on a champion's power level.

Ok so, contrary to popular belief, melee AD carries are actually super viable on summoner's rift. Guess which ones? Well, zed and khazix for example. "Omg noob these are assassins". Yes, they are, and they can carry the game, therefore making them melee ranged AD (because they do ad damage) carries (because they can carry).

It is the particular subgroup of AUTO-ATTACK based melee adc's that aren't really viable, because they can't seem to be able to get in range in order to do their damage (if they built damage).

I have been playing Aatrox for a while on PBE now and I believe riot made some good changes on him, the main one being his ult:

He was previously too ult dependent as it was the only source of stats he gained, therefore you felt bad when your ult was down or if you didn't land it properly. They then moved some of the power from the ult to his AS buff gained from blood well, and now he is actually a very strong laner. With his amazing sustain and revive, he is able to stay in the fight a lot longer than most other adc's without dying. But that is still not enough.

See, the problem is, the point of AA based adc's is that they need to teamfight for a good amount of time before going down in order to have an impact. When he gets killed he sits idle for 3 seconds during which his ult buffs are being wasted, after which is blood well is drained and he has no AS buff, making him as good as dead anyway. Riot took too much power away from his ult.

My proposal: Give his ult back the HP boost per enemy hit. It will give him the tankyness he needs to survive longer before going down so he can dish out more damage. I think riot has done a very good job on this champion and he is ever so close on becoming a viable, aa-based melee adc instead of another copy+paste cookie cutter bruiser.

Also, for those who are interested in my build, I build him with one thought in mind: Items that will allow me to get as many AA's as I can, quickly, before triggering my blood well. This means that I build items that give me AD, tenacity, cleansing, AS, rezistances and HP:

- Swiftness boots for the MS slow reduction
- Zephyr for tenacity, AS, and that lovely MS buff (seriously, combine this with swiftness boots and nobody will catch you or escape from you)
- Hydra/Bloodthirster (need lifsteal on this guy. The thing is, his abilities don't do a lot of damage at all, based on your AD, so I feel that a bloodthirster is wasted on him. Hydra is way more slot efficient for AA based carries, imo)
- Mercurial Scimitar (I also get clease as a summoner spell. With all the items you have rezistance to burst and you will be practically un-cc-able. I spit in your face: Exhaust, wither, Dazzle, Reckoning, Ignite etc...TWICE)
- Randuins Omen (He scales nicely on HP because of his passive and the extra armor is nice in this ad assassin meta)
- Guardian Angel / Frozen mallet / Warmogs (honestly it depends here, I would usually get GA because it revives you BEFORE your passive kicks in, so I will have a bit more uptime with my full AS-giving blood well, however any tankyness items should do well).


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Neverworld

Senior Member

05-27-2013

Quote from new Public Beta Forum: http://community.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/f/2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651/d/bGT2uAW5

Quote:

I dont know if you guys already recognized it, but Aatrox Ultimate got changed today.

It will no longer deal 15% of max HP of enemies, it will now deal 200-300-400 static magic damage.

Yeah...
So I'm asking myself, does Riot want to create Aatrox, the Archenemy of Tryndamere, or they want to create a clone of Kayle?
Aatrox feels now like a much heavier version of Kayle, being both able to burst, slow, having increased attack range and being both Hybrid.

The AP.Ratio of Aatrox's ultimate is 100%. So if you get (for example) 1000 AP, your ultimate will deal 200-300-400 + 1000 damage. That makes insanely 1400 damage (+ with magicpen) to ALL enemies in the near.

What do the community thinks? I loved Aatrox as he was before and not how he can be abused to play as an Hybrid or even APCarry..... Before his change, I tried to play Aatrox as Hybrid and it was just a epic fail. Only Guinsoo's Rageblade was great in his AD build(Because of Attackspeed), giving him the chance under 50% HP to deal increased damage, having increased lifesteal, increased Spellvamp, increased attackspeed and this with his W who will heal him 200% more if his life is under 50%, is just perfect.

Please Riot, if you read this... Change his Ultimate back to 15%. I really dont know who got this insane idea of changing his Ultimate, he was perfect.


Aatrox was before he got this static magic damage on his ultimate, perfect. He had the AS buff on his Blood Well before the change.

The problem is, Aatrox wastes more HP with his skills. Getting the HP boost will only result in more HP costs. I would rather you buy Guinsoo's Rageblade instead of Zephyr. Guinsoo's Rageblade is almost at 8 stacks the same as when you would have 100% Blood Well (because of AS).


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Uncommon Dandy

Senior Member

05-27-2013

Quote:
Neverworld:
Quote from new Public Beta Forum: http://community.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/f/2EAF660193FA3B668D7234B3AEBB530C5AB7F651/d/bGT2uAW5



Aatrox was before he got this static magic damage on his ultimate, perfect. He had the AS buff on his Blood Well before the change.

The problem is, Aatrox wastes more HP with his skills. Getting the HP boost will only result in more HP costs. I would rather you buy Guinsoo's Rageblade instead of Zephyr. Guinsoo's Rageblade is almost at 8 stacks the same as when you would have 100% Blood Well (because of AS).


I know, I was merely referring to his current state as opposed to his state when launched. The problem with guinsoo's instead of zephyr is that zephyr will reward you more if you are skilled.

A skilled aatrox will try to charge up his bloodwell before entering combat by killing minions and monster camps and then poking the enemy with E. Assuming you enter the fight with near full blood well, you don't need extra attack speed (i get zephyr for tenacity and speed, the other stats are bonuses) from guinsoo, and you also get a decent chunk of extra HP and a 3 second Zhonya when you die.


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Neverworld

Senior Member

05-27-2013

Having full Blood Well always when a teamfights appear, is not makeable. The bonus AS from Blood Well is more a special bonus and Aatrox doesnt need this attackspeed to survive. It is just good to increase the attackspeed slightly. Attackspeed items that will increase the trigger for W is the only opinion to master him, while having AD for damage and a bit HP to survive heavy focus.

That's why you cant always count on his Blood Well. If you start W bonusdamage, your health will go down as fast as your attackspeed is, because W bonusdamage consumes your HP. That's why Blood Well will get fast 100% with higher attackspeed.


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Uncommon Dandy

Senior Member

05-27-2013

Quote:
Neverworld:
Having full Blood Well always when a teamfights appear, is not makeable. The bonus AS from Blood Well is more a special bonus and Aatrox doesnt need this attackspeed to survive. It is just good to increase the attackspeed slightly. Attackspeed items that will increase the trigger for W is the only opinion to master him, while having AD for damage and a bit HP to survive heavy focus.

That's why you cant always count on his Blood Well. If you start W bonusdamage, your health will go down as fast as your attackspeed is, because W bonusdamage consumes your HP. That's why Blood Well will get fast 100% with higher attackspeed.


Keeping his bloodwell full is sort of an art. You need to be constantly on the move and attack stuff. Hell, I managed to keep my blood well at around 75% for a full minute and a half at one point (post lane phase). I even attacked baron and got chunked just so it didn't start draining.

In order to get the absolute best out of aatrox, you need to have your health bar AND your blood well full. This means you will have godly AS and a huge chunk of extra HP stored. The way I do this is I go to a lane and fill up on blood, and then start to heal myself. Then, whenever walking around the map (and i am fast because of swiftness and zephyr) I always stop to E a minion camp (or just farm it) or lane. Usually you can reliably do this for like a minute. When you are being sieged, it's quite easy to keep it full. Just E the attackers whenever it's off cooldown.


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RT Fan Donutdude

Senior Member

05-28-2013

Quote:
Uncommon Dandy:
Keeping his bloodwell full is sort of an art. You need to be constantly on the move and attack stuff. Hell, I managed to keep my blood well at around 75% for a full minute and a half at one point (post lane phase). I even attacked baron and got chunked just so it didn't start draining.

In order to get the absolute best out of aatrox, you need to have your health bar AND your blood well full. This means you will have godly AS and a huge chunk of extra HP stored. The way I do this is I go to a lane and fill up on blood, and then start to heal myself. Then, whenever walking around the map (and i am fast because of swiftness and zephyr) I always stop to E a minion camp (or just farm it) or lane. Usually you can reliably do this for like a minute. When you are being sieged, it's quite easy to keep it full. Just E the attackers whenever it's off cooldown.


It's for the bolded reason that I like him as a jungler. It's quite easy to keep the Well full before going for a gank. Also, using the build attached, I found it very easy to jungle clear and backdoor due to the massive attack speed buffs the Well provides. Also, using the AS from the Well + Massacre, it turns him into a Master Yi-grade backdoor nightmare whilst maintaining a very deadly teamfight presence.

Build idea for Aatrox.JPG

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Sevothtarte

Senior Member

05-29-2013

just get a BotrK and built ultra tanky. his innate abilitys make him strong enough to bruise. everything else will simply result in u being nuked down by a caster instantly without any chance of dealing any dmg. see master yi.

autoattack based champion with gapcloser and slow isn't that original, there are already champs like irelia or xin zhao in the league and both are played quite similar: get 1-2 dmg items and built tanky and it works best for them.


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BurbonBread

Senior Member

06-03-2013

Quote:
Uncommon Dandy:
Disclamer: Keep in mind that people on the PBE are potatoes so it's hard to get an accurate reading on a champion's power level.

Ok so, contrary to popular belief, melee AD carries are actually super viable on summoner's rift. Guess which ones? Well, zed and khazix for example. "Omg noob these are assassins". Yes, they are, and they can carry the game, therefore making them melee ranged AD (because they do ad damage) carries (because they can carry).

It is the particular subgroup of AUTO-ATTACK based melee adc's that aren't really viable, because they can't seem to be able to get in range in order to do their damage (if they built damage).

I have been playing Aatrox for a while on PBE now and I believe riot made some good changes on him, the main one being his ult:

He was previously too ult dependent as it was the only source of stats he gained, therefore you felt bad when your ult was down or if you didn't land it properly. They then moved some of the power from the ult to his AS buff gained from blood well, and now he is actually a very strong laner. With his amazing sustain and revive, he is able to stay in the fight a lot longer than most other adc's without dying. But that is still not enough.

See, the problem is, the point of AA based adc's is that they need to teamfight for a good amount of time before going down in order to have an impact. When he gets killed he sits idle for 3 seconds during which his ult buffs are being wasted, after which is blood well is drained and he has no AS buff, making him as good as dead anyway. Riot took too much power away from his ult.

My proposal: Give his ult back the HP boost per enemy hit. It will give him the tankyness he needs to survive longer before going down so he can dish out more damage. I think riot has done a very good job on this champion and he is ever so close on becoming a viable, aa-based melee adc instead of another copy+paste cookie cutter bruiser.

Also, for those who are interested in my build, I build him with one thought in mind: Items that will allow me to get as many AA's as I can, quickly, before triggering my blood well. This means that I build items that give me AD, tenacity, cleansing, AS, rezistances and HP:

- Swiftness boots for the MS slow reduction
- Zephyr for tenacity, AS, and that lovely MS buff (seriously, combine this with swiftness boots and nobody will catch you or escape from you)
- Hydra/Bloodthirster (need lifsteal on this guy. The thing is, his abilities don't do a lot of damage at all, based on your AD, so I feel that a bloodthirster is wasted on him. Hydra is way more slot efficient for AA based carries, imo)
- Mercurial Scimitar (I also get clease as a summoner spell. With all the items you have rezistance to burst and you will be practically un-cc-able. I spit in your face: Exhaust, wither, Dazzle, Reckoning, Ignite etc...TWICE)
- Randuins Omen (He scales nicely on HP because of his passive and the extra armor is nice in this ad assassin meta)
- Guardian Angel / Frozen mallet / Warmogs (honestly it depends here, I would usually get GA because it revives you BEFORE your passive kicks in, so I will have a bit more uptime with my full AS-giving blood well, however any tankyness items should do well).



Finally a dude that takes Aatrox for what he is, an assassin with a backup plan.

Instead of crying "omg he can't tank, omg he can't this, omg he can't" xD

I really love botr instead of BT on him though.


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