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Lissandra Passive + Q Suggestion

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Neverworld

Senior Member

04-04-2013

Hello folks.

I want to make this quite short, so you won't be forced to read a 1000 letter post.

As I saw Lissandra's passive, I was shocked for a moment. First I thought that she maybe needs this, because she's a manawaste-champion. But then I found out, that she's nothing like that. Her skills are so much created, that she roams a lane very easy with Q and E.
So her passive is not needed to hold a lane and to push.

Even on fights she just had enough mana to waste, because her W, E and ultimate are on a high cooldown. Only Q has a low cooldown compared with her other skills.

So I thought, is this everything? Granting her every 15 seconds a skill wich dont consumes mana? Sounds not very attractive compared to other champions.

First I want to thank you Riot, for creating Lissandra (Though I would more love to call her Lyssandra). I like her very much, her skillset is very creative and I enjoyed her.

But next, I would love to improve her passive as well her Q. Why?
Like I said, her passive is kinda useless or atleast not profitable. Her Q has only a static amount of slow percentage, wich could be enhanced to improve her lack of survival.

Lissandra get's forced to play close, because she has only one range damage skill (Q), one close area damage + snare skill (W), one skill that can be used to dodge or to initiate (E) and one damage skill with AoE, what can be also used to protect Lissandra (R).

I don't want to change her way of playing, but as she's forced to play close, I would love to see her Q slowing the enemy harder by higher skill level. (like level 1: 10% slow .. level 2: 15% slow .. level 3 25% slow .. level 4 35% slow ... level 5 40% slow)


Now the passive. In my eyes, it would be better to increase the damage of the next ability by 20% (+5% damage by every 20% slow amount on the enemy). Cooldown should be like 20 seconds and it can be reduced by using a skill with movement impairing effect on a enemy unit by 2 seconds.

Why all these changes? It's simple.
It will give Lissandra more mechanics to play riskful, but also with great impact. As she's already a AP Carry, wich have to play close to the target enemy, it will grant her more chances to survive with giving her 20% increased spell damage by every 20 seconds.

And because of the +5% for every 20% slow amount on the enemy. I don't think it would be that great if every movement reducing debuff would count. But only from Lissandra created slows like her Q or with an item like Rylai, would increase her damage, but only if focused on items with movement slow effects.

Some fight scenarios:
Lissandra uses her Q on a enemy. If the enemy got hit by her ability, the spell will hit em with 20% increased spell damage.

Lissandra uses her E, inflicting damage and activate her passive. As the 20 seconds of her passive begins to count down, it reaches 10 seconds till the passive is ready again. Her E is ready again and she use it, hitting the enemy and teleporting to its location. Lissandra uses Q to inflict damage and give the enemy a 40% slow debuff. While passive is ready again, Lissandra use her W and inflicts damage with 30% increased spell damage (20% from passive. +5% per each 20% slow amount = 10% ... 20% + 10% = 30%)

Another scenario is the same like the second one, but you use ultimate instead of W. If you time it well, you can use the ultimate to increase the AoE damage.

----
Another suggestion would be just changing her passive into "If Lissandra hits an enemy with a ability, it will consume no mana and grant her mana based on the max healthpoints of the enemy. This passive has a cooldown of 15 seconds". So if her passive is active, her next ability will cost no mana and if the ability hits an enemy, Lissandra will get mana based on the enemy max health. (value of max health based on passive skill level. Something like 3%-5%-10%-14% of enemy max health)

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I know it's a bit trashtalk, but I just wanted to give some suggestions. I'm sorry if I have waste your time.


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Neverworld

Senior Member

04-05-2013

I know, there are much haters who would see me in real life dead.

But just giving dislikes? What does that mean? You dont like me? You dont like my suggestion? You think I talk b******? Or you think that my suggestion is way worse than other suggestions?

C'mon. Those numbers like 20% are just placeholders, even if in my eyes 20% are not too high and not too low. So tell what your "problems" are. This suggestion is just made for Riot, so they can think over of her passive. Lissandra cant waste her skills fast enough to get out of mana.

Karthus Q passive grants manaheal by killing enemy units. Swain passive grants manaheal by killing enemy units. Irelia E (was it E?) passive grants her by killing an enemy with her leap skill no manause.

Those passives are great benefits for those manawasters, but Lissandra has, compared to other ap carries, high cooldowns, wich cant be used so often to waste her mana. It's not something like Swain ultimate, with this he waste mana like hell. His Q and E are lock on skills, wich cant be avoided (except with spellblock), that's why he needs that passive. Karthus has his Q wich consumes early and mid much mana. Even his E waste his mana fast.

Lissandra has a quite problem, she's actually a bit slow compared with other ap carries.
Her Q and E can be dodged, but to chase an enemy, she has to play close to the target, so she can hit an enemy. But her high cooldowns does not allow her skillset to have somehow a chance against others. My suggestion about increasing her damage every 20 seconds, would grant her more chances.


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Robin2

Member

04-05-2013

You made a really nice post and everything but the thing with Lissandra is she has TONS of utility and pretty high damage, not to mention the free Zhonya's with AOE slow and damage.

Her short range is her downside. I know you just want to make her Q slow more but people think Lissandra is a nice champion and don't want her nerfed into oblivion.

But people are lazy and don't want to write a post ^^ Also by experience I can tell you that I still haven't seen a champion being changed after being revealed.


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Strannch

Junior Member

04-05-2013

Well it's pbe here, all can changes.

I agree with author, on the passive and Q , wich are, first, kind of useless late game, and second, not enough slowing for a "queen of frost"


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Neverworld

Senior Member

04-06-2013

Quote:
Robin II:
You made a really nice post and everything but the thing with Lissandra is she has TONS of utility and pretty high damage, not to mention the free Zhonya's with AOE slow and damage.

Her short range is her downside. I know you just want to make her Q slow more but people think Lissandra is a nice champion and don't want her nerfed into oblivion.

But people are lazy and don't want to write a post ^^ Also by experience I can tell you that I still haven't seen a champion being changed after being revealed.

Her skillset are both created to save herself and to kill the enemy.

The problem is, when you chase an enemy with your skills, you won't be able to use a fatal blow. Almost every mid champion does have skills wich are kind of "op". Those mid champs are so called nukers. Like Swain Q,E-W-R, Brand Q-E,W-R, Morgana Q,W-R, Karthus Q-Q-Q-W-E-R, Rumble Q-E-W-R, and more. There are also some ap carry's wich are more based on strategy or tactic, like Heimerdinger Q-Q-W-E-R (Even Heimerdinger nukes very hard with W - Rockets wich target 3 - with ultimate 5), Zyra Q-E-R.

Lissandra is a bit of both. She can nuke a bit and she can use strategy to encounter a enemy, but she's in fact powerless or atleast she cant survive that much. Using her ultimate to save her is one thing, but because of that lack of survial, she's forced to protect herself instead of using it on the enemy, because after spamming all skills (wich can be avoided also..), while they are all on cooldown, she has to use autohits or to run in circles, while the enemy escapes.

Her Q movement reduce is way to slow for her skillset. She's still having 2 skills with over 10 seconds cooldown, one with 7-8 cooldown and her ultimate with an average cooldown.
Her passive has no need, since she's anyway underpowered early, so she cant have a use of spamming her skills. On mid and lategame, she will have no problems with mana, so her passive will have no function and will be useless. Increasing her manacosts would bring nothing, because she would still need a higher manapool, wich would decrease her damage by buying manareg/manapool items instead of damage items.

By the way. What ya mean exactly? Zac skills had a higher amount of HP costs before he came to live server. That's a change.


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Dark Helel

Senior Member

04-11-2013

Quote:
Neverworld:
Hello folks.

I want to make this quite short, so you won't be forced to read a 1000 letter post.

As I saw Lissandra's passive, I was shocked for a moment. First I thought that she maybe needs this, because she's a manawaste-champion. But then I found out, that she's nothing like that. Her skills are so much created, that she roams a lane very easy with Q and E.
So her passive is not needed to hold a lane and to push.

Even on fights she just had enough mana to waste, because her W, E and ultimate are on a high cooldown. Only Q has a low cooldown compared with her other skills.

So I thought, is this everything? Granting her every 15 seconds a skill wich dont consumes mana? Sounds not very attractive compared to other champions.

First I want to thank you Riot, for creating Lissandra (Though I would more love to call her Lyssandra). I like her very much, her skillset is very creative and I enjoyed her.

But next, I would love to improve her passive as well her Q. Why?
Like I said, her passive is kinda useless or atleast not profitable. Her Q has only a static amount of slow percentage, wich could be enhanced to improve her lack of survival.

Lissandra get's forced to play close, because she has only one range damage skill (Q), one close area damage + snare skill (W), one skill that can be used to dodge or to initiate (E) and one damage skill with AoE, what can be also used to protect Lissandra (R).

I don't want to change her way of playing, but as she's forced to play close, I would love to see her Q slowing the enemy harder by higher skill level. (like level 1: 10% slow .. level 2: 15% slow .. level 3 25% slow .. level 4 35% slow ... level 5 40% slow)


Now the passive. In my eyes, it would be better to increase the damage of the next ability by 20% (+5% damage by every 20% slow amount on the enemy). Cooldown should be like 20 seconds and it can be reduced by using a skill with movement impairing effect on a enemy unit by 2 seconds.

Why all these changes? It's simple.
It will give Lissandra more mechanics to play riskful, but also with great impact. As she's already a AP Carry, wich have to play close to the target enemy, it will grant her more chances to survive with giving her 20% increased spell damage by every 20 seconds.

And because of the +5% for every 20% slow amount on the enemy. I don't think it would be that great if every movement reducing debuff would count. But only from Lissandra created slows like her Q or with an item like Rylai, would increase her damage, but only if focused on items with movement slow effects.

Some fight scenarios:
Lissandra uses her Q on a enemy. If the enemy got hit by her ability, the spell will hit em with 20% increased spell damage.

Lissandra uses her E, inflicting damage and activate her passive. As the 20 seconds of her passive begins to count down, it reaches 10 seconds till the passive is ready again. Her E is ready again and she use it, hitting the enemy and teleporting to its location. Lissandra uses Q to inflict damage and give the enemy a 40% slow debuff. While passive is ready again, Lissandra use her W and inflicts damage with 30% increased spell damage (20% from passive. +5% per each 20% slow amount = 10% ... 20% + 10% = 30%)

Another scenario is the same like the second one, but you use ultimate instead of W. If you time it well, you can use the ultimate to increase the AoE damage.

----
Another suggestion would be just changing her passive into "If Lissandra hits an enemy with a ability, it will consume no mana and grant her mana based on the max healthpoints of the enemy. This passive has a cooldown of 15 seconds". So if her passive is active, her next ability will cost no mana and if the ability hits an enemy, Lissandra will get mana based on the enemy max health. (value of max health based on passive skill level. Something like 3%-5%-10%-14% of enemy max health)

---------
I know it's a bit trashtalk, but I just wanted to give some suggestions. I'm sorry if I have waste your time.




i do must say that lissieĀ“s passive is bit useless,the idea ofthe passive was to reduce the use of the blue golem buff,and stand in lane,but her passive need a lot of mana,to can only trigger itself...:

Iceborn ( Passive )
Every 18 seconds Lissandra's next ability costs no mana. This cooldown is reduced by 1 second whenever Lissandra impairs an enemy's movement with an ability ( does not apply to movement-impairing effects from items )

i need to activate that passive to spend a lot of mana to get spammable free mana....

that passive should be reworked in something like:
1-cd reduction (like ryze)
2-free manaless abilities per x autoattacks (like nunu)
3-spellvamp (like morgana)
4-movement speed (like no idea):

suggestions
1-same as ryze

2-Every 18 seconds Lissandra's next ability costs no mana. This cooldown is reduced by 1 second whenever Lissandra hit an enemy with autoattacks or abilities.

3-every 4 spells lissie next ability will gain X%spelllvamp

4-lissandra gains X% speed near visible enemy champions and gain a bonus of X% mov.spd if her abilities impair their movement(regarding duration per enemy movement reduction.)

or her passive could steal mov,speed as malphite Q does,giving it to herself


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