Season 3 - Hecarim Guide (Top/Jungle)

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Cyganek

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Senior Member

16-01-2013

Hi guys. I would like to present you my Hecarim Guide for those who did not see it so far.
Please leave some comments and feedback!

Be wise - Become a Centaur Whisperer
http://www.lolking.net/guides/1545


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MaxiBe├ža

Senior Member

16-01-2013

Seems good.

What do you think about AS reds instead of armor pen?


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Cyganek

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16-01-2013

Hecarim does not rely on his attack speed for his clears. He needs the armor penetration for his spammable Q to deal more damage.


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Vaylen Obscuras

Senior Member

16-01-2013

Hey there~ Let me give my two cents to your guide. I play hecarim rather well(usually jungle) and have found a rather nice build for him. There is one item, you definetely miss for hecarim: Zephyr.
Zephyr gives an extreme boost to MS - With MS Quints, Zephyr and Boots of Swiftness, you get to 454 MS if I am correct. THat is just nice for Hecarim.
How do I get to this item? Well, I wanted to take Boots of Swiftness for Hecarim, so I lacked Tenacity. Then I found Zephyr, and this item is great for him.
The AD is beneficial to Heca, that high MS increase is and that Tenacity grants you the possibility to take something other than Merc Treads. Also, Zephyr grants your 10% CDR - and CDR may not be most important on Heca, but it is useful.
Also, think a bit~ WHat counters Hec? In fact, a simple slow is counted as a hard counter for him. Overall, CC is bad for Heca. If you take defensive masteries, Zephyr and Boots of Swiftness, you eliminate his weaknesses pretty much:
A whole of 45% Tenacity? CC's only last roughly half as long on Heca. That is just juicy.
40% Slow reduction? With your high MS, accumulated through Quints, his high Base, Boots of Swiftness and the 10% boost from Zephyr, then add the 45% tenacity and then put even a 40% slow reduction on that. As you can guess, Hecarim is pretty much unstoppable like that, especially late game(Which is Heca's strongest phase).
I usually build like this: Machete+5 pots->Boots of Swiftness->Spirit Stone->Zephyr->Frozen Mallet->Spirit of the Lizard Elder
This is the usual beginning. It offers him a good bit of survivability, especially with me 9-21-0 Masteries, high damage and penultimate CC reduction.
After this, I tend to get the enchantment furor if I am doing well. It boosts him just greatly in fights, due to that extra MS.

The Last two items are more situational. I often get myself Mercurial+Frozen Heart. Sometimes I get a bulwark, sometimes I get an Iceborn, sometimes a Randuins. Often, I get a quick Negatron or Chain Mail in-between my first 4 items, if I feel that is necassary.

In any case, I have, in fact, the biggest problem with the last two items. The choices there are actually:
Is Iceborn Gauntlet really THAT good on him? I mean, sure, it is not bad - it gives him a lot of what Heca needs. But is the Proc really that invaluable, considering I have already Frozen Mallet?
Mercurial or Maw. Always a question for me, you see~ The CC debuff+MS Increase is rather nice for awesome getaways. The Maw, however, is a bit cheaper and grants that nice shield. Also, the new passive from Maw~ Still have to test it out. Could you give me more of an in-depth answer on what to take there? Would be rather helpful.
I do not take spirit Visage, simply because there seem to be better defensive options. I get Maw/Mercurial primary for MR, because they also give me the damage I need. Spirit Visage's passive surely synergizes well, however, how much is it really worth on him? I sometimes opt to take it against a heavy AP team.
I take randuins because Heca can easily apply this passive VERY well. Use E->Ult in->Knock an enemy to your team-> use Randuins to cripple the enemy team. It is a very effective way of using his abilities. Also, I take Randuins because It gives me some necassary Armor AND health, making me more sturdy against any type of damage.

Furthermore, I think Heca is rather bad in lane, simply because you have no way to safely harass the enemy. Heca has to get close up and personal to his enemies to deal damage, has a large hit box, which makes it harder to dodge enemy skillshots - especially at the beginning, when you don'T have that much MS and he can be zoned easily, due to his rather weak early game. One can take Heca in lane, but against a good enemy, you have quite the problem. If your enemies are just bad, you can do some funny things in lane, but thats it.

These are a few of my views and some questions, which you may be able to shed light upon. Thanks in advance^^


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Cyganek

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16-01-2013

Thats a lot of text. Overall I think that you play Hecarim way more offensive oriented (Dealing more damage) whereas I tend to be the unmovable big tank doing my damage over time.

It may be wrong to judge from the few Hecarim games oyu played in your history, but honestly I think you die way too often as Hecarim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaylen Obscuras View Post
Zephyr gives an extreme boost to MS - With MS Quints, Zephyr and Boots of Swiftness, you get to 454 MS if I am correct. THat is just nice for Hecarim.
It is nice indeed, but instead of getting Zephyr there are other options.Shurelias for example is VERY cheap and has a Movement Speed bonus for your WHOLE team which makes Hecarim more useful. It gives you health, CDR, Regeneration stats and builds out of a gold item. It is more cost efficient than Zephyr. The main reason I tend to ignore Zephyr, is the Attack Speed. Hecarim does not need attack speed, he has his spammable Q. So you invest 1250 Gold into Stinger. Lot of gold that could have been used for a Giants belt, Armor or Mres.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaylen Obscuras View Post
How do I get to this item? Well, I wanted to take Boots of Swiftness for Hecarim, so I lacked Tenacity. Then I found Zephyr, and this item is great for him.
Spirit of the Ancient Golem or Merc Treads give you the Tenacity you need. They both give oyu stats you REALLY need to be a sustained fighter and be able to just dive into the enemy team without dying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaylen Obscuras View Post
Zephyr grants your 10% CDR - and CDR may not be most important on Heca, but it is useful.
It is very important. with 40%CDR you can have your W activate every 4 seconds, making you an invincible god amongst men.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaylen Obscuras View Post
I tend to get the enchantment furor if I am doing well. It boosts him just greatly in fights, due to that extra MS.
Agreed. Its awesome on Hecarim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaylen Obscuras View Post
Is Iceborn Gauntlet really THAT good on him? I mean, sure, it is not bad - it gives him a lot of what Heca needs. But is the Proc really that invaluable, considering I have already Frozen Mallet?
Frozen Mallet gives you health, a slow and attack damage. It is an okay item. So why do I choose Iceborn Gauntlet? Well it builds out of a glacial Shroud. For me it is an core item. Tons of Armor, Mana, CDR, very cheap.
From there I decide: Do they have a fed AD CArry/Lots of AD Champs? If yes, I tend to buy Frozen Heart for the huge ass attack speed debuff helping my team even more. If I fell like I am ahead. I get Iceborn. Iceborn also gives you a slow like Frozen Mallet, but it is an AoE Slow. + You have 125% Damage from your Sheen Proc, ALSO as AoE. So instead of attacking one enemy with the +20AD from Frozen Mallet, I get off an Ae Slow and AoE Damage with Iceborn. Additionally it makes your jungling faster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaylen Obscuras View Post
The Last two items are more situational. I often get myself Mercurial+Frozen Heart.
Mercurial is so damn expensive. 3800 Gold for a QSS active. The only good thing is the Mres but you can get it elsewhere with better combined stats and and way cheaper. The QSS active may be cool on Squishies, but it is YOUR job to EAT all the CC they throw at you. but if you are tanky enough, Hecarim does not give a ****.
Attack Damage.. well it is not my style. I prefer being the tanky dude. My team will do the initial burst damage and I clear up the rests afterwards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaylen Obscuras View Post
Mercurial or Maw. Always a question for me, you see~ The CC debuff+MS Increase is rather nice for awesome getaways
Maw is good. Great for burts champions and giving you some more time to breath. In fact it is very cost efficient. You buy it for 3200 and it gives you stats worth of 2920 to 4480 This item is way better than Mercurial if you want to get Attack Damage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaylen Obscuras View Post
Also, the new passive from Maw~ Still have to test it out. Could you give me more of an in-depth answer on what to take there?
It is more cost efficient with lots of Health. Spirit of the Ancient Golem, Randuins, Spirit Visage, Shurelias, Sunfire. they all give you Health. Combine it with something you need.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaylen Obscuras View Post
I do not take spirit Visage, simply because there seem to be better defensive options. I get Maw/Mercurial primary for MR, because they also give me the damage I need. Spirit Visage's passive surely synergizes well, however, how much is it really worth on him? I sometimes opt to take it against a heavy AP team.
Core Item. As I mentioned: CDR is great. HP is great. the Mres is VERY good and the unique and unforgetable Bonus heal passive. In fact without Fore of Nature it is one of the best Mres Items in the game. With Frozen Heart and Spirit VIsage you will almost cap your 40% CDR making you the already mentioned invincible God of War.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaylen Obscuras View Post
I take randuins because Heca can easily apply this passive VERY well. Use E->Ult in->Knock an enemy to your team-> use Randuins to cripple the enemy team. It is a very effective way of using his abilities. Also, I take Randuins because It gives me some necassary Armor AND health, making me more sturdy against any type of damage.
Agreed. Builds out of good items, massive Armor, Health, nice effects. I really like it. Im just a bit sad they took out the attack speed debuff from the active


In the beginning I said you tend to be more aggressive oriented which leads you to dying way too often (As I saw in your History and your average Hecarim stats). This is because of the lack of tankyness in your builds. All your AD invested gold does not help your teammats when you are dead. I favor to stay alive for the whole battle and deal the same amount of damage or even more over a longer period of time.

Hecarim works both ways. Aggressive and Defensive. From my experience, playing him more defensive is more effective and lethal for the enemy.


Thanks for your feedback and discussion


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Vaylen Obscuras

Senior Member

16-01-2013

Okay, thanks for the answer!
Well, the last games were bad, I know that xD I have had bad losing streaks these days o.o ANd I play hecarim mostly recently, because he is, in fact, my first jungler to pick up and I try to perfectize it~ ALso, as I mentioned, I am not completely sure about the build, so lots of testing is necassary.
But what a noticed: Hecarim needs allies that follow up well and do some good teamwork. He is more of a teamwork-reliant champion than others, which is rather abysmal in games with random players at times xD
And well, the deaths just come from allies dying. An ally feeds an enemy, that one roflstomps our team. Many games have been like this recently for me, which is rather annoying o.o
If your whole team is losing their lanes, one cannot really do much as a jungler.

In any case, I agree that this AS on Zephyr is not the best choice for Heca - still useful, but not the best. He, however, profits rather much from everything else that item grants you, as I explained. After getting Boots of Swiftness+Zephyr, Heca becomes rather strong. Add a giants belt to that and you already get very tanky.

Well, I try swapping out Frozen Mallet for Iceborn and see how that works out. Then, I'll also try using the Spirit Visage a bit more and try around with using the Maw instead of the Mercurial.
Though, a fun fact: The latest patch gave the Spirit of the Lizard Elder a 10%CDR. The Spirit+Zephyr+Masteries=24% CDR and Hecarim does not really need a lot more CDR as I find. If I remember correctly, his q even had a soft-cap at 25% CDR. I try a 40%(Or 39%)CDR build out, though and see how that works.
In any case, I did some math and the like and found out: In the end, your build is actually less durable than my build, at least from mathematics(Though, I am not sure about mercurial<->Maw). Though, these maths do not count in the heal from his W - but in the end, I think it evens out in terms of durability.
However, I think it may be worthwhile to get something to tank-up a bit early game - for example, going early game like Machete+5pots->Boots of Swiftness->Giants Belt->Zephyr. It is actually quite surprising how much more tanky Heca gets with just a Giant Belt, defensive masteries and runes.

Though, what you should also mind: Except for the usual start(Spirit Stone, Boots of Swiftness and Zephyr), I build VERY situational with Hecarim. DO I desperately need more tankiness? I take either Randuins or Spirit Visage. Or am I rather fed and want to build my lead? I get the Spirit of the Lizard Elder sooner. Usually, I get Frozen Mallet for the mix of offense and defense and for that easily applied slow(Which is, in fact, more potent that Iceborn's slow on a single target). Also, in comparism, Frozen Mallet grants more tankiness than Iceborn Gauntlet.
Int he end, I think that the Gauntlet offers more utility but less raw strength for Heca than Frozen Mallet would. It is a bit of a tough choice to make~
Frozen Mallet: Better chase, AD, more tankiness against both physical AND magical damage.
Iceborn: More teamfight utility, CDR for more spam, the damage proc to contribute to his offense.
In the end, I think I'd stick with Frozen Mallet, though, I'll still try out a 40% CDR build, as I also find CDR useful on him - yet not most important.

Anyway, while calculating my builds with Hecarim, I tend to get to an AD of around 300-340, an effective physical health of around 9000-10000 and an effective magical health of around 7500-9000.


In any case, to do a little take-on on your playstyle, I want to ask: What benefits Hecarim more early game? Utility, like Tenacity, MS increase or a slowing attack, Tankiness acquired through health, armor or mres or simple offense by getting AD?


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Cyganek

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Senior Member

16-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaylen Obscuras View Post
Though, these maths do not count in the heal from his W
Exactly this is the point of this build and Hecarims mindset.
Hecarims strength an durability is defined by his W and his ability to survive long enough.

Just imagine a huge 5vs5 teamfight and you engage. You will lose tons of health of course, but with your team in your back you WILL even this out and outsustain the fight. I often find myself in situations where I lose health from 100% --> 40% and then back up to 90% simply because his W is ridicously broken in teamfights. With 40% CDR, the cooldown on W is 8 seconds. It takes 4 seconds for your W to expire. This means god mode every 4 seconds and extremly broken healing PLUS your spirit visage. Considering this and for example a Iceborn Gauntlet, I will deal aoe damage, aoe slow, aoe heal, aoe everything. This gives Hecarim logically more effective health than anything else. Additionally all his items are in this case super cost efficient. All the stats you buy are stats you want and need.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaylen Obscuras View Post
In any case, to do a little take-on on your playstyle, I want to ask: What benefits Hecarim more early game? Utility, like Tenacity, MS increase or a slowing attack, Tankiness acquired through health, armor or mres or simple offense by getting AD?
As you mentioned yourself. It is situational. But on my first buy I tend to always get the Spirit Stone, level 1 boots and 1-2 wards.
If I seriously get ahead I love building the Lizard Stone.
If the enemy AP gets really fed, I rush Spirit Visage.
If the enem AP could possibly be a problem but I think I can deal with it for now I get Kindlegem
Problematic AD --> Glacial Shroud
I think I can carry --> Iceborn Gauntlet
I think I should help my team more --> Frozen Heart.


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Death Doge

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Vaylen Obscuras

Senior Member

16-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyganek View Post
Exactly this is the point of this build and Hecarims mindset.
Hecarims strength an durability is defined by his W and his ability to survive long enough.

Just imagine a huge 5vs5 teamfight and you engage. You will lose tons of health of course, but with your team in your back you WILL even this out and outsustain the fight. I often find myself in situations where I lose health from 100% --> 40% and then back up to 90% simply because his W is ridicously broken in teamfights. With 40% CDR, the cooldown on W is 8 seconds. It takes 4 seconds for your W to expire. This means god mode every 4 seconds and extremly broken healing PLUS your spirit visage. Considering this and for example a Iceborn Gauntlet, I will deal aoe damage, aoe slow, aoe heal, aoe everything. This gives Hecarim logically more effective health than anything else. Additionally all his items are in this case super cost efficient. All the stats you buy are stats you want and need.
I see, interesting. In any case, I have to test the spirit visage out myself - when I get the Visage, I also instantly have the 40%(39%) CDR in any case - though, I often get myself the blue buff on Heca if possible(I still give it to someone else if necassary). With Blue Buff, I have my 40%CDR rather fast anyway.
You still have to put a few things into the equation, though: 1. I use his W myself and get some extra tankiness from it; 2. I have a certain amount of CDR myself in any case and I use the W frequently in any case; In the end, if you equate all of that~ I think the two builds would work around the same - your has a bit less damage and a bit less innate tankiness, but more durability in teamfights, while my build has probably a bit less durability in teamfights, but a bit more innate tankiness and more damage. The train of thought behind build was rather simple: I tried to take as many offensive/defensive items as possible - to maximize damage and tankiness at the same time. I start out more offensive because I feel I need that bit of offense to gank properly early game. In fact, I struggle most with Hecarim early game~ So I am tinkering a lot around with my first few items. Late game, however, my Hecarim is a nigh unstoppable killing machine. I am very tanky, W gives me great sustain and I still deal a LOT of damage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyganek View Post
As you mentioned yourself. It is situational. But on my first buy I tend to always get the Spirit Stone, level 1 boots and 1-2 wards.
If I seriously get ahead I love building the Lizard Stone.
If the enemy AP gets really fed, I rush Spirit Visage.
If the enem AP could possibly be a problem but I think I can deal with it for now I get Kindlegem
Problematic AD --> Glacial Shroud
I think I can carry --> Iceborn Gauntlet
I think I should help my team more --> Frozen Heart.
I see, so you start out rather defensive usually~ With my build, I would probably start out with a giants belt then - it gives one more tankiness than one may think.
ALso, I think that maybe rushing the CDR for Hecarim might not be that beneficial - because no big teamfights will happen right away - and CDR on Heca makes him more efficient in teamfights as I think.


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Escape Artist

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