I would like to see the Dota 2 Punishment system in LoL!

First Riot Post
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AngryKutu

Senior Member

30-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor von Asgard View Post

However the ranked queue is pretty problematic...

Your point may be right but since I have not looked into this and I usually stay away from the ranked queue, I cannot comment....


/Buump!


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RiotMontag

Player Experience Manager

30-08-2012
3 of 12 Riot Posts

The Player Behavior team has tossed around the idea of a separate queue for poorly behaved players. Lyte has talked about it a bit – I believe the common term he uses is "Prisoner's Island." It's not off the table, but we have a few concerns with the idea that we would have to solve first:

1. Toxicity breeds toxicity. If you put a but of toxic players together, they're only going to get worse. We would much rather reform a toxic player than doom them to eventually get banned.

2. A separate queue for poorly behaved players creates longer matchmaking times for them. That incentivizes players on Prisoner's Island to smurf so they can get into a match in a reasonable amount of time. Rather than solve the smurf problem, it actually makes it worse, especially in the 1-5 range. Not a great first impression for someone just starting the game.

Not out of the question, but the PB team would have to figure out a way to lessen the impact of those problems first.


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AngryKutu

Senior Member

30-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotMontag View Post
The Player Behavior team has tossed around the idea of a separate queue for poorly behaved players. Lyte has talked about it a bit – I believe the common term he uses is "Prisoner's Island." It's not off the table, but we have a few concerns with the idea that we would have to solve first:

1. Toxicity breeds toxicity. If you put a but of toxic players together, they're only going to get worse. We would much rather reform a toxic player than doom them to eventually get banned.

2. A separate queue for poorly behaved players creates longer matchmaking times for them. That incentivizes players on Prisoner's Island to smurf so they can get into a match in a reasonable amount of time. Rather than solve the smurf problem, it actually makes it worse, especially in the 1-5 range. Not a great first impression for someone just starting the game.

Not out of the question, but the PB team would have to figure out a way to lessen the impact of those problems first.



I can see the reason in these 2 problems and I have to comment on those. I can understand your concerns about toxicity breeding toxicity but at that case that point clearly looses its value.

As I have commented to the Emissary above me, the environment in LoL at this moment, at least in Eu West is indeed highly toxic as you state it. Players get desperate on it and threads pop up every day about people who ended up flaming while they were pleasant guys or about people wanting to quit LoL.

Of course it is normal that if people start to flame at you you get angry and pissed but this leads to two possible paths about LPM:

Path 1: People will be annoyed at people who flame them and they will flame them too.
This could happen on Prisoner Island as you express it where toxic players are allowed to be in that environment relishing on their toxicity.

But LPM is not that. It is more of a jugdement zone. The entry durations start low. If you flame inside the LPM it will be like shouting and insulting a person who criticises you. It will lead to the punishment which would be further stay in LPM and maybe a ban according to the player's behavior.

Path 2: People will show superiority at people who flame them and they will hold still and play their game waiting to get out of LPM.
I believe it is made clear that the LPM instead of Prisoner Island system doesn't follow the principle: Get in there away from the others and behave however you want.
What it follows is more like: We think that you are abusive and offensive so we keep an eye on you. If we find out that you are abusive and offensive you will be punished.

You should still keep in mind however that many people prefer not to react to a troll and rather mute him than behave toxicly as you state.

And that is the main reason why I said bans should still exist. But one might think that if the whole fuss is about for the player to get punished by a ban if he keeps being abusive, why discuss about it?
Because it is one effective way of facing the people who just play to troll. You obviously know what I am talking about. I am talking about people who will go inside a game and they will try to annoy everyone in there. Such people do not care with who they play. They would just keep spamming the Play button even if they were on the LPM without making smurfs.

And their behavior can show to the more mild flamers the wrong of their ways.




For the 2nd point you talk about, the queue time, there is a trunk-explanation with a very improtant branch. What I know from DotA 2 as a player where an average of 700.000 people are online most of the times is that the queues do not prolong more than maximum 7 minutes at very specific times. In a normal day, queue times are around 2 minutes.

*edited the above part to add the part of the final sentence that continues after 7 minutes because I had forgot to put it when I wrote that post*

LoL has a much larger playerbase, -larger than WoW- and even if you consider the server splits there are still many many many more players and we all know that many of them are very likely to end up in LPM. Actually if this suggestion is implemented, in a week and for two or three more the NPM queue might be 1 or 2 minutes longer than the LPM one.

And about the branch, it has two sides. First as a guy said here on the first pages, many people wouldn't mind waiting ~2 more minutes if they were to play without trolls. And finally a queue increase of ~3 minutes can be seen as a minor side-punishment.
I generally do not believe that people might use smurfs for matters of minutes.

Of course everything about these numbers can change but honestly, I do not believe that this would result in a problem. Maybe you guys could count the queues if you put all banned players in an imaginary LPM zone.





And after that point, we can talk about the comparison between such a suggestion and the system we have today. There are many points in there.

First of all, in every lv1 game there are enough smurfs to ruin the player experience. And that is the result of many rightfully-taken action that has clearly backfired. This system may still create smurfs out of people who end up receiving the bans, but I honestly do not believe that people will abandon all their runes and unlocks for a smurf.

Nowadays they only do it when their account is perma banned, or banned for more than 2 months or so.
About people ending up permanently on LPM or getting banned, it would be same as now where people get permanent banned. But there is a significant possibility that those who are permanently on LPM won't create smurfs.

The suggestion is not perfect of course. No one is in the long run. But why I think it is good? Because there are many chances for it to face problems of the current system. At the moment smurfs roam all the lower levels making experiences of new players horrific.

Many of these are the trolls who just play to troll and I already said how this suggestion could help face them since they are one of the biggest parts of the whole problem in the LoL community.
It is more likely to make such people just play in LPM until they get banned if they behave so irrationally than to make them make smurfs.

Even some flamers have come in here in a page and have said themselves that this would work because they would not abandon all their unlocks and skins.

In my suggestion I should mention here that bans should be attributed on extreme cases to make the system meaningfull.


I have nothing to say at the moment, you can all keep posting in here if you need clarity over an issue.
All I want is LoL to get a better punishment system, whether it would be mine or someone else's because the game doesn't feel going the right way at the moment.


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AngryKutu

Senior Member

30-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by johan1003 View Post
Just found this awsome bug click here and you will get a free rp 25$ card click here! [link removed]


That is a scam. Do not click.


-On subject-: I am sure many interesting discussions will follow and that is a good thing!

/Good night bump!


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G4mbytt

Senior Member

30-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryKutu View Post
-On subject-: I am sure many interesting discussions will follow and that is a good thing!
As they always did for the past year. So I wouldn't be so sure it is a good thing.


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AngryKutu

Senior Member

31-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by G4mbytt View Post
As they always did for the past year. So I wouldn't be so sure it is a good thing.

I want to believe for the best !


/Good morning bump!


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G4mbytt

Senior Member

31-08-2012

Keep believing for another year !


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AngryKutu

Senior Member

31-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by G4mbytt View Post
Keep believing for another year !
No need for negativity !

/Buump!


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MaxiBe├ža

Senior Member

31-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotMontag View Post
Toxicity breeds toxicity. If you put a but of toxic players together, they're only going to get worse. We would much rather reform a toxic player than doom them to eventually get banned.
You are basically punishing the good people to keep the ragers.....

Let me explain you something i have learned after two decades and a half on this rock.

People do change. But it takes years to do it, and they wont do it over a game. I had friends that were permabanned for raging, afk'ing, insulting, etc; they mailed support saying that they were going to try their best to behave better.

Guess what? They still got permabanned again, and they would be banned again soon were they to be unbanned today. Heck, even on their smurfs they got banned. Its just who they are.


Murderers will kill again, a rapist will rape again given the chance, a man that smacks a woman will do it again for sure (ive seen this one first hand, on a few cases, and it always happens again), etc. They might be able to stop doing it, sure. But it will take a long time, and until then, the others suffer for their flaws.


And that is completly wrong.


Screw the ragers and leavers, and keep the good people together so we can have a much better time.


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Hakuoh

Senior Member

31-08-2012

Well actually a friend of mine got into this in DotA 2.

And he learned his lesson out of it. cause u cant even have 1 decent game there.
People rage and leave. Biggest problem most of them where really bad that was the main issue. :P