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Philidia

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Emissary of the League

16-01-2012

Hello FeralPony, English isn't my best language, I hope you will understand nevertheless.

I follow your post since a long time. It's very cool to give some informations on EU boards


I would speak about Ashe and Mf :

Mf looks really good, even if she's not really played a lot. I would speak about her passive. What would you think if this passive keep being active even if a creep hits you, and only champ/turrets disable it (Like Teemo) ?

About Ashe... Well, do you think she's still viable ? Laning against Vayne/Graves is really horrible, even with a good support. I don't know if I'm bad, but she was my main at season 1. Now, if you take her, you're going to get outfarmed. So, I had a little idea. Actually, at first lvl, Piltover, Phosphorous, Buckshot, Boomerang, etc... has cd near 10sec, when the first lvl on volley has 20sec. Do you think making that cd 12/10/8/6/4 could help her early ? Also, do you think her passive needs any change ?

Thanks !


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Loleon

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Member

17-01-2012

I was wondering about putting more damage into physical carries abilities and toning down their auto attack damage, allowing diversity in typical AP mid AD bot situations. This way, if ADs scaled better off abilities (hence levels->mid game power) instead of directly off items (late game power), they wouldn't be immediately disadvantaged vs APs in lane. This would equalise mid/late game of APs and ADs, so you could mix up the lanes some more. The only thing is that it would probably require some large changes to a lot of things .

From Morello comments here, seems you are going in the opposite direction. Is this correct? In my opinion this just reinforces the current meta, which fixes AP mid and AD bot.


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Uuni

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Senior Member

18-01-2012

I've heard that poppy is found to be problematic and is being looked at, is this true? Any idea what the changes might be?

+Not really your field I guess but... any changes on old skin art?


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Father Tunde

Senior Member

20-01-2012

So what are the current thoughts and plans on pretty much every single champion in the game?
Also, how could you possible think that *insert any random champion* is balanced?!?

Lol no, imma get down to a serious question:
When Ashe has her slow (q) on, it seems to me like her autoattacks are actually slower, making it harder to last hit, could you confirm(or deny) this?
Also, recently, I was slowed by like 60% because of mundo and twitch and it felt like ashe took forever to turn around. Yes, you heard right, i said turn around o.O. I was running back to my tower but twitch was nearly dead so i turned around to try and kill him (it?). But the whole thing, turning around and firing an autoattack, took so long that Twitch got to kill me before I landed a shot. So my question is: do slows also slow activities like turning around? Or is Ashe just generally slow at everything? :P Or am I just retarded?

Second question is about Karthus and Sivir. In the descriptions it says that Karthus channels his ult for three seconds and it says that Sivirs shield lasts for three seconds. Yet, if I activate my shield as soon as Karthus starts channeling his ult, the ult will always hit (and kill :s) me. Ive done this loads of times, it happens everytime. It feels like there is at least a second or so difference. (Either Sivir shield is 2sec or karth ult channels for 4sec). Could you confirm this?

I remember a while ago someone had a difficult question and he said that the wiki, the in-game description, all the fan sites and his own experience all gave different answers and he got so frustrated that he had no idea how to find out the real truth. And then you were just like 'imma go check the code, brb'. That was so badass. So I was hoping that way you could give some definite answers to these questions as well


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ThunderingShadow

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Member

21-01-2012

First off, I love you FeralPony..

Second, I'm going to post a few buys I found, mostly with the UI, but seeing as I've seen these questions on the bug report forum as well and they haven't been answered yet, I thought maybe you could assure me they are known and are being dealt with somewhere in the future.

Thirdly, I'm going to ask an actual mechanics questions, along with some strange things I've encountered.

1. You're awesome, but I already kinda gave that away didn't I ?

2. The ignore function works very weirdly for me, and usually doesn't even work at all.
If during the summary screen I put someone on my ignore list, I always get disconnected from pvp.net. After I reconnent, and try again, usually the same thing happens. Sometimes after a few time clicking, the icon actually indicates that that person is now ignored, but I can always still read what he's typing in the post-game chat.

Now, even stranger things happen when I'm in-game and I click on the little ignore button behind someone's name. When I do that, it does seem to work, but after that I get terrible FPS drops for like 25 seconds.. after which I can play normally for a few minutes, and then it happens again. Then when the game finishes, I always see 2 messages in my notifcation folder, one that states the player has been ignored, and one that I've been disconnected from pvp.net. (note that this somehow did not impair my ability to chat in-game) And even though I ignored the player in question in-game, I am still able to see what he's saying in the post-game chat. His ignored checkbox isn't checked as well, while I did ignore him in-game and it worked there.

(P.S. I've also seen people who say they get FPS drops at odd times, sometimes after 20 minutes into the game, it might be worth asking them if they also get it after ignoring someone)

3. Hold on to your horses ! ( <-- see what I did there ?) Here's the actual mechanics question. And it's about moving and attacking, perhaps has something to do with pathing.

A few weeks ago, I started noticing that sometimes my champion who is chasing someone, suddenly briefly stops, then starts moving again, then stops again, usually just about when I'm about to catch up to him/her. And no, not because I lost vision. (although I also absolutely HATE that when I lose vision of a champion I rightclicked on, my character stops, but that's another topic entirely)

The example I'm going to give here is with one of my favourite champions, Jax. I had this today, and I actually made a recording of the game with LoLRecorder.

Here is what happens:
I have level 2 boots: 400ish move speed
Anniebot has level 1 boots: 360 move speed.

Annie is low so I decide to charge in like a moron like all noobs do (-_-')

Now, since I'm coming from southwest of her, and she moves away in a straight line, I don't catch up to her until after about 5-10 seconds. I found this odd at first, but when I thought about it I figured this was probably because I engaged her on a diagonal angle while she was moving away in a straight line. My scientific mind somehow tells me that isn't as illogical as it seems, since moving in a straight line from point A to B is always the fastest. (of course, since it's about 2 moving targets, it gets a bit more complicated, but you get the idea, and so did I to some extent)

But then, the strangest thing happens. I catch up to her, and my character just stops for a second, then resumes chasing after her. catches up, stops again, and so forth. I have noticed this before with a melee champion, I believe it was Master Yi.

What I think is happening is: I catch up to her and my champion wants to attack her. But by the time his attack wants to initiate, she's out of range again and he starts walking again. This probably wouldn't happen if my movespeed wasn't as close to hers (40 difference) But I did catch up to her ! I should at least get an auto-attack right ? At least I think it always did before, I've never had this up until a few weeks ago, where I first encountered it while chasing someone where my character just decided to make these "hickup" like movements. (and no again, I didn't lose vision)

Shouldn't my character keep walking closer until it's close enough to actually be able to attack once ? I probably couldve prevented this by clicking on a point beyond annie and waiting with right-clicking her until I sufficiently closed the gap between us.. but somehow it doesnt feel like the correct pathing that should happen when I right-click on someone with a melee champion.

I mean, ranged champion always fire when they get in range.. They stop chasing the champion further and attack, but their attack never gets canceled because the champion they are chasing moves out of range because they stopped.

I also thought that some champions might have a higher "range" on their melee attacks, maybe because of their size, or perhaps because of their effect "circle" calculated from the champions "center", or something, if you understand what I mean..

So far, I think I've encountered this with Master Yi, Gankplank, and Jax. And I've never had this happen to me before the Jax remake too, which seems suspicious, but possibly I'm imagining it.

Thanks in advance, I'm a huge fan..


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Father Tunde

Senior Member

21-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderingShadow View Post

I also thought that some champions might have a higher "range" on their melee attacks, maybe because of their size, or perhaps because of their effect "circle" calculated from the champions "center", or something, if you understand what I mean..
Here you will find the range of all the melee champions: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Range

But yeah, I have encountered the same problem and would really like to know why this is and whether this is a known issue.

Btw, you have a typo where you say buys instead of bugs at the start, might wanna change that, it confused me a bit at first


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FeralPony

Live Balance Designer

22-01-2012
401 of 457 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luuzak View Post
Hey pony it's been a while since I last wrote here. Remember, the Renekton-guy that claims his passive is useless, which it still is and I'm still waiting on the promised buff WAY ago that guinsoo posted on twitter.. but nvm

My question is actually kinda simple: What's with the Summoners Rift maps?
I've read on NA, that with the next patch, the wintermap will be taken out again. Additionally to that, I've been reading a post from our dear Saergi, german community coordinator if I'm not wrong, stating, that Riot puts in the maps when it's seasonal fitting.

Needless to say, I'm happy that right after winter, right after new year, the Halloween-map will return cO Don't you think that it's inappropriate to put out the halloween map again? The whole year until winter returns?

Actually this isn't only a rant. Actually I have a nice idea for it, too.

Why not making a map for every season? Like in spring, you could make a nice SR-Map, that's focussed about warm colors, cherry blossoms like these
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-IGrKZM_rQv...ryBlossoms.jpg
and a bit more of an asian feeling... Would actually be pretty nice for our chinese LoL-Players that get the awesome artwork while we don't.
SR classic for summer is nice, Why not making a halloween map without all those halloween-decoration-things? just a normal fall-map.... nothing special. Same with the winter map? Why was the original winter map was taken out in the first place?

TL: DR
Just make "normal" versions for every season and a decorated version when it's time for these holidays
I don't know what the plans are for the SR seasonal maps. Seasonal variants for all seasons could be cool but I would worry about the relative value of pulling a number of our artists off their current projects to redo all the normal SR assets (some of the stuff they are doing now is really cool!).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Papertuft View Post
Terrorist Teemo, walks around planting C4s, holds an AK-47.

u talk to skins team?!

???
I have a pretty good feeling what the answer will be but I'll mention the idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philidia View Post
Hello FeralPony, English isn't my best language, I hope you will understand nevertheless.

I follow your post since a long time. It's very cool to give some informations on EU boards


I would speak about Ashe and Mf :

Mf looks really good, even if she's not really played a lot. I would speak about her passive. What would you think if this passive keep being active even if a creep hits you, and only champ/turrets disable it (Like Teemo) ?

About Ashe... Well, do you think she's still viable ? Laning against Vayne/Graves is really horrible, even with a good support. I don't know if I'm bad, but she was my main at season 1. Now, if you take her, you're going to get outfarmed. So, I had a little idea. Actually, at first lvl, Piltover, Phosphorous, Buckshot, Boomerang, etc... has cd near 10sec, when the first lvl on volley has 20sec. Do you think making that cd 12/10/8/6/4 could help her early ? Also, do you think her passive needs any change ?

Thanks !
MF: This was the original implementation though it got changed do to power concerns.

Ashe: We toned down Vayne and Graves a little bit which should help those matchups. I feel that as a carry she is lacking a bit compared to the ones you mentioned but the level of support/utility she brings is pretty crazy. Ashe's ultimate is one of the best in the game (if not the best) and her ability to perma slow from range and scout safely should not be underestimated. I know there was some talk about lowering her early Volley CD, and it would certainly help her early game (though 12 @ rank 1 seems pretty low) we need to be very careful to not go too far. It won't take much at all to push Ashe back to the number 1 carry slot.


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FeralPony

Live Balance Designer

22-01-2012
402 of 457 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loleon View Post
I was wondering about putting more damage into physical carries abilities and toning down their auto attack damage, allowing diversity in typical AP mid AD bot situations. This way, if ADs scaled better off abilities (hence levels->mid game power) instead of directly off items (late game power), they wouldn't be immediately disadvantaged vs APs in lane. This would equalise mid/late game of APs and ADs, so you could mix up the lanes some more. The only thing is that it would probably require some large changes to a lot of things .

From Morello comments here, seems you are going in the opposite direction. Is this correct? In my opinion this just reinforces the current meta, which fixes AP mid and AD bot.
I would need to sync up with Morello for a bit more context. This isn't an issue I've talked with him about in any great detail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uuni View Post
I've heard that poppy is found to be problematic and is being looked at, is this true? Any idea what the changes might be?

+Not really your field I guess but... any changes on old skin art?
Yeah there are some Poppy changes being looked at, I was working on a couple for a little while, but I'll have to sync up with Live Team to see if they have any current plans for her. There are a couple of core design issues with Poppy but my focus was more on toning her down a bit on Dominion and helping her out on SR.


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FeralPony

Live Balance Designer

22-01-2012
403 of 457 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Tunde View Post
So what are the current thoughts and plans on pretty much every single champion in the game?
Also, how could you possible think that *insert any random champion* is balanced?!?

Lol no, imma get down to a serious question:
When Ashe has her slow (q) on, it seems to me like her autoattacks are actually slower, making it harder to last hit, could you confirm(or deny) this?
Also, recently, I was slowed by like 60% because of mundo and twitch and it felt like ashe took forever to turn around. Yes, you heard right, i said turn around o.O. I was running back to my tower but twitch was nearly dead so i turned around to try and kill him (it?). But the whole thing, turning around and firing an autoattack, took so long that Twitch got to kill me before I landed a shot. So my question is: do slows also slow activities like turning around? Or is Ashe just generally slow at everything? :P Or am I just retarded?

Second question is about Karthus and Sivir. In the descriptions it says that Karthus channels his ult for three seconds and it says that Sivirs shield lasts for three seconds. Yet, if I activate my shield as soon as Karthus starts channeling his ult, the ult will always hit (and kill :s) me. Ive done this loads of times, it happens everytime. It feels like there is at least a second or so difference. (Either Sivir shield is 2sec or karth ult channels for 4sec). Could you confirm this?

I remember a while ago someone had a difficult question and he said that the wiki, the in-game description, all the fan sites and his own experience all gave different answers and he got so frustrated that he had no idea how to find out the real truth. And then you were just like 'imma go check the code, brb'. That was so badass. So I was hoping that way you could give some definite answers to these questions as well
1. Can confirm. Ashe does not take longer to turn around than any other champions. Slows do not slow down turning. An attack speed slow however would cause your attacks to be slower. I don't believe Mundo or Twitch's slow slows attack speed but I would need to confirm they aren't champions I play often.

2. Can't confirm, would need to check the code.

Thanks I'll see what I can do.


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FeralPony

Live Balance Designer

22-01-2012
404 of 457 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderingShadow View Post
First off, I love you FeralPony..

Second, I'm going to post a few buys I found, mostly with the UI, but seeing as I've seen these questions on the bug report forum as well and they haven't been answered yet, I thought maybe you could assure me they are known and are being dealt with somewhere in the future.

Thirdly, I'm going to ask an actual mechanics questions, along with some strange things I've encountered.

1. You're awesome, but I already kinda gave that away didn't I ?

2. The ignore function works very weirdly for me, and usually doesn't even work at all.
If during the summary screen I put someone on my ignore list, I always get disconnected from pvp.net. After I reconnent, and try again, usually the same thing happens. Sometimes after a few time clicking, the icon actually indicates that that person is now ignored, but I can always still read what he's typing in the post-game chat.

Now, even stranger things happen when I'm in-game and I click on the little ignore button behind someone's name. When I do that, it does seem to work, but after that I get terrible FPS drops for like 25 seconds.. after which I can play normally for a few minutes, and then it happens again. Then when the game finishes, I always see 2 messages in my notifcation folder, one that states the player has been ignored, and one that I've been disconnected from pvp.net. (note that this somehow did not impair my ability to chat in-game) And even though I ignored the player in question in-game, I am still able to see what he's saying in the post-game chat. His ignored checkbox isn't checked as well, while I did ignore him in-game and it worked there.

(P.S. I've also seen people who say they get FPS drops at odd times, sometimes after 20 minutes into the game, it might be worth asking them if they also get it after ignoring someone)

3. Hold on to your horses ! ( <-- see what I did there ?) Here's the actual mechanics question. And it's about moving and attacking, perhaps has something to do with pathing.

A few weeks ago, I started noticing that sometimes my champion who is chasing someone, suddenly briefly stops, then starts moving again, then stops again, usually just about when I'm about to catch up to him/her. And no, not because I lost vision. (although I also absolutely HATE that when I lose vision of a champion I rightclicked on, my character stops, but that's another topic entirely)

The example I'm going to give here is with one of my favourite champions, Jax. I had this today, and I actually made a recording of the game with LoLRecorder.

Here is what happens:
I have level 2 boots: 400ish move speed
Anniebot has level 1 boots: 360 move speed.

Annie is low so I decide to charge in like a moron like all noobs do (-_-')

Now, since I'm coming from southwest of her, and she moves away in a straight line, I don't catch up to her until after about 5-10 seconds. I found this odd at first, but when I thought about it I figured this was probably because I engaged her on a diagonal angle while she was moving away in a straight line. My scientific mind somehow tells me that isn't as illogical as it seems, since moving in a straight line from point A to B is always the fastest. (of course, since it's about 2 moving targets, it gets a bit more complicated, but you get the idea, and so did I to some extent)

But then, the strangest thing happens. I catch up to her, and my character just stops for a second, then resumes chasing after her. catches up, stops again, and so forth. I have noticed this before with a melee champion, I believe it was Master Yi.

What I think is happening is: I catch up to her and my champion wants to attack her. But by the time his attack wants to initiate, she's out of range again and he starts walking again. This probably wouldn't happen if my movespeed wasn't as close to hers (40 difference) But I did catch up to her ! I should at least get an auto-attack right ? At least I think it always did before, I've never had this up until a few weeks ago, where I first encountered it while chasing someone where my character just decided to make these "hickup" like movements. (and no again, I didn't lose vision)

Shouldn't my character keep walking closer until it's close enough to actually be able to attack once ? I probably couldve prevented this by clicking on a point beyond annie and waiting with right-clicking her until I sufficiently closed the gap between us.. but somehow it doesnt feel like the correct pathing that should happen when I right-click on someone with a melee champion.

I mean, ranged champion always fire when they get in range.. They stop chasing the champion further and attack, but their attack never gets canceled because the champion they are chasing moves out of range because they stopped.

I also thought that some champions might have a higher "range" on their melee attacks, maybe because of their size, or perhaps because of their effect "circle" calculated from the champions "center", or something, if you understand what I mean..

So far, I think I've encountered this with Master Yi, Gankplank, and Jax. And I've never had this happen to me before the Jax remake too, which seems suspicious, but possibly I'm imagining it.

Thanks in advance, I'm a huge fan..
1. Thanks! I like you bros in EU a lot too! (Still really want to go to the Dublin Riot HQ!!!)

2. I would suggest submitting a report to the bug reports section (those get logged every couple days by our QA staff).

3. I've seen the studder bug you are mentioning a couple of times but I've only seen it happen to melee champions who are attacking foes with very high MS. I'll poke some engineers to see if there is a workable solution. Just to clear up some confusion though, attack range is always determined from the edge of the model not the center of the model. This is so things like feasted Cho'Gaths get attack ranges that match their range and sync up with visual effects and animations. It also makes a bit of logical sense as having a bigger weapon would increase your reach.